Proof of Christian complicity in abusing Hindu Gods in Mangalore
by Deepak Kamat ~ September 18th, 2008. Filed under: Uncategorized.Dear all,
These are the scanned copy of Satyadarshini — the book denigrating Hindu gods distributed by the missionaries of New Life.
We have the entire copy. Just a few pages containing the choicest abuses of Hindu Gods have been scanned and given to all, as I received a lot of requests for the original documents.
(Click on the images to view larger size)
September 18th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Please publicize this post by sending link to different Hindu nationalist blogs like
rajeev2004.blogspot.com
http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in
and others.
September 18th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Thanks, for publishing the original excerpts, helps bring out the truth. When the pseudo-secular media running around in circles and bending over backwards for TRP.
Satyam eva jayeta
September 19th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Excellent Job! We need more blog like yours’ to unmask the Christian Missionary attack in India.
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=q3Zxjndf0mw&feature=related
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=dkvdtzk1pbo&feature=related
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=52Jok2Jzt3s&feature=related
September 19th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Deepak,
Many thanks to you for making theis information known - with proof !!
I am circulating these links amongst people I know .. the media’s suppression of facts is simply outrageous !!
September 19th, 2008 at 6:18 am
Hi Deepak,
You are throwing “Light” –> great job by bringing up the proof.
Shame on Media people.
September 19th, 2008 at 8:11 am
are the above scripts available in hindi or english?
September 19th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Dear Deepak,
Without wasting much time come out with a befitting answer against each comment, before the book reaches to wrong quarter who will come out with illogical,misguiding and chaotic answers
September 19th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
we need to attack their base, the way in which they target the tribal people, attacking churches and beating wont help it will make them stronger saying they are dying for god, just like muslims,
so we need to take their own path and attack their root
contact me if u need any suggestion i have been doing some work in this area with my RSS people
September 19th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
i feel ashamed of what certain christian groups are doing, protestants are involved in conversion by luring poor and the ignorant,
i feel ashamed that i was born as a Christian
September 19th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
@ Raja Durai,
There is nothing wrong in the Christian faith per se.
What is wrong is the way the Church politicises things and encroaches on HIndus.
September 20th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
but why r u circulating this filth. keep in mind before circulating
1.is it true?
2. do u believe it.
3. is it of any use.
September 21st, 2008 at 7:02 am
@ Suneel Dutt,
I am forced to circulate this filth because the media is making baseless allegation against Hindus.
September 22nd, 2008 at 1:29 am
great job deepak,
GOd give u more health and resoure to further enlighment we all with u happy seeing such things among youths
jai hind ,
September 23rd, 2008 at 7:46 am
Looking at the root it is quite evident that this should have been a fight between a confused Hindu (paravastu suranarayana) and Hindu. Why not catch hold of the Writer of this book and make him to reverse the statements and bring him back to Hinduism?????
September 23rd, 2008 at 8:19 am
Hi Deepak,
Do I have permission to link to this page as proof against conversion activities in different websites?
Do let me know,
Regards.
September 23rd, 2008 at 12:01 pm
@ Above,
You may.
I have told this at the base of my website. There is no copyright in Hinduism. Anybody is free to give any of my links to any websites.
September 23rd, 2008 at 3:59 pm
End fraudulent conversions of Dalits and Tribals
R L Francis
15 Sep 2008
As the menace of conversions is perpetuated with the receipt of foreign funds, the Poor Christian Liberation Movement (PCLM) has steadfastly demanded that the church utilize all foreign funds exclusively for the welfare and uplift of poor Christians who are suffering from terrible discrimination within the community. Indeed, this is the reason why PCLM has been petitioning the Government of India not to appoint Bishops, priests and nuns to official Commissions and Committees, and instead appoint ordinary Christians.
read here.
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=108
The author is convener, Poor Christian Liberation Movement (PCLM)
September 24th, 2008 at 12:23 am
I CAN NOT READ THIS LANGUAGE BUT IF IT SHOWS SUCH THINGS THEN SEND IT TO NEWS PAPERS AND NES CHANNELS AND FORCE THEM TO SHOW THIS PUBLICKLY ALSO SEND TRANSLETD COPY TO SPECIAL MUSLIM LIKE MULAYAM ,LALU, RAMVILAS AND OTHER LEFT PARTY
September 24th, 2008 at 5:56 am
this is a slap to all the media ppl(especially CNN IBN) who were showing baseless info abt hinduism and projecting RSS and other hindu activists and organizations as terrorists and christianity as the superior religion. SHAME ON THEIR PART.
media, who should b objective n socially responsible, atleast now should learn to follow the job ethics.
September 24th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
This article clearly explains how things are used to brainwash people against Hinduism. One of the fundamental reason behind these acts is the support which these organization get from the political parties over the period of many years.
Thank goodness that there is a state government which is in favor of Hindu’s. I can see the statement of the stupid politicians from opposition parties to topple the government that wants to uncover the truth and funds behind the conversions.
This is the first time i ever heard a US Ambassador and some officials from US department getting involved. Where were these people when there is a attack happens on a temple in India or any other country. It’s a shame that our impotent central government is allowing an outsiders to come and check the issue. Also it’s shame to hear Sonia Gandhi coming to Mangalore to assess the situation.
This shows that we as Hindus should step up and preserve our culture and pass it to the next generation. There is nothing wrong with being a christian or a muslim as long as they understand to live within the limits. The riots etc are just the results of years of suppression on Hindus.
Good job Deepak on making these documents public.
September 27th, 2008 at 1:00 am
[...] are the teachings of half-naked rishis." "Krishna had a despicable sex life." Proof of Christian complicity in abusing Hindu Gods in Mangalore | Great Hindu __________________ saw this in some site dont remember the name tough [...]
September 29th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Dear Deepak,
When you published this dirty article Why don´t you mention the name and previous occupation of the Author?? Why do you hide this??
I learnt that the Author of the article Satya darshini was a Hindu Priest apointed in a Hindu Temple as poojari? before he converted himself to New Life. Being a Temple poojari he must be knowing what is written in Hindu Holy books. If all what he wrote was nothing but bogus or just to abuse why the Hindus are worried and angry? Your(RSS VHP Hindutva) reaction towards this article makes me to believe that there is some truth in it!! Otherwise why don´t you people file a case against him and bring him to the justice?? Why????
October 4th, 2008 at 6:56 am
I here by wish to convey that ours(INDIA) is not religion and dont have any name like hindu but its is called sanadhan dharma which mean nobody can destroy this bharat culture or dharma. our fore father are created culture for this earth bharath only has got tradition for many lacs and lacs year. others talk of only thousand/two thousands year.Remember that this culture is not create by single person its is there and it will be there for ever.
All discovery from India is AthiAthmiga related athma gyna
1) Zero (om purnamathap purnamitham-Upanishad)
2)wana sasthra (part of veda recently baskar battar)
3) Yaga (kapilar and recently five thousand year before Bathanjali munivar)
4)Mathematics is supported instrument for astrology in order to to caculate lunar eclipse solor eclipse,sun rise time,set time how other graha’s iflunce us like that.
5)Medicine - part of veda ayur veda recently susruthar.
When all the above is correct we must belive our fore farther wards also that this dharma culture will not die for ever. Bharath is generator for other nations becouse of india Equilibrium is maintained in the world.
Bharath matha key jay
October 7th, 2008 at 12:36 am
easwar>>>but its is called sanadhan dharma which mean nobody can destroy this bharat culture or dharma>>>
Any culture which prmoted disrespect for human life, inequality,oppresive ideology, violation of human rights etc etc has not survived long and took only a natural death. Little analysis on death of some cultures would tell you so..
Now you analyse yourself if any of the above mentioned bad things were in our Bharath cuture and work on to correct it, than resorting to Bajrangi type Rape/Murder/Torching alive/looting etc to substain a Varna culture..
October 7th, 2008 at 10:09 am
My dear Sapr333,
friend what i mean that culture of bharath for so many thousands years still not changed becouse we accept jesus, Nabi salalahu or any one for matter in athiathmiga we(bharthian) dont abuse or insult. Also we dont canvas or Mobilize people, we never ask any one to join to our religion becouse its not religion its way of life. when ever other country men or who distrup our dharma then bharathian took strang step to stop such things. Orangasip& during british period war from british indian Soldiers many example can quote (even budha religion vanished india not by force by knowledge by asking question who has realized nirvana they said budha. which reveals that existence of bhuda is there means only one existence is ultimate, which is bharat discovery so they failed)
Our text tought only sathvic, dharma & sathiya and in every mantra chanting shathi shanthi shanthi . which means full satisfaction there should be no difference with anything or anyone that should be our bharathian goal let us try to resovle all our diffrences . I be a bharathian agree to put a statue for jesus in our temple we have hundreds of god let us keep that also. we will adjest to any level which is sanadan dharma.
You know that all countries are Astounded to see our culture and like to adobt the same . Also they are questioning how people are satisfied without money by sleeping in Platform. They think shanthi is outside but all bharathian without knowingly it has been tought by our rishis thro following of our dharma’s we are happy. (Shanthi is inside)
October 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
easwar, i fairly agree to your point too..
But when it comes the concept of God, whoom we both agree that God is of absolute holiness,righteousness, and all justice,then we need to clarify few points..
Can we confine God only to Hindustan If you agree so, then there will be logical fallacy, which you need to respond..
>>You know that all countries are Astounded to see our culture and like to adobt the same>>
How can we identify a Culture with God…God is universal for all cultures.. Dont you agree with me… God agrees with all his creations culture, be it a scavenging dalit culture,priestly brahim culture,educating christian culture ,chinese etc etc…God is one.
But then, God is also a moral standard/benchmark for all of us.. We get inspirations from God …And I would again conclude my post with a question…
Can the gods be unholy …how can we justify the acts of abduction/rape/murder of gods.. What if our Children justifies the same act..Please work out to find a theological answer…(Dont feel Im hurting you, we are on a debate)
October 9th, 2008 at 8:43 am
see the news (call it “biased”)
Cuttack, October 9: : Siman Nayak’s shaved head is a stark reminder of a fate suffered by many Christians in eastern India in a battle over forced conversions to Hinduism that has left thousands of refugees fearing for their lives.
At least 35 people have been killed in a string of religious attacks in Orissa state sparked by fears of forced conversion that have also sent more than 20,000 mainly poor, lower caste villagers into refugee camps and shelters.
“They told us if you do not become a Hindu we will hack you to death,” said Nayak as he sat in a shelter, in the Orissa town of Cuttack, where about 60 refugees live and sleep in one room.
His eyes wide with anger, Nayak said he was one of 13 villagers who were surrounded by Hindus waving axes and shouting for revenge after the death a few days before of a Hindu leader in an attack they blamed on Christians.
That killing, in Kandhamal district, sparked some of the worst anti-Christian riots in India in decades.
“They pulled out swords and axes, and called the village barbers,” said Nayak.
“They took us to a temple and told us to put our head before god. They fed us rice and ghee from temple offerings.”
Kandhamal district, a poor and remote tribal region in Orissa, has been the focus of controversy surrounding Christian missionaries since British colonial times.
The number of Christians rose by 66 per cent from 1991 to 2001, the latest census data shows, and is now at more than 10 per cent of the population, compared with 2 percent across India.
Controversy over conversion, which spans many parts of India, also reflects a tit-for-tat religious battle for hearts and minds. While Orissa’s victims were mostly Christians, fear of conversion is the same on both sides of the communal divide.
For years, many Hindus feared missionaries enticed the poor to Christianity with promises of schools, hospitals, and money.
“Conversion was easy because the government gave the poor and tribals minimal facilities. So the space was easily found,” said Prasanta Patnaik, a former newspaper editor in Orissa.
AGGRESSIVE MISSIONARIES?
Patnaik said he knew of cases two decades ago when some villagers were given quinine tablets to entice them to Christian “miracles”. He says missionary work now is less aggressive.
But in the past few decades, tales like these sparked a backlash from a Hindu group which “converted” many people back to Hinduism through a purification ritual.
It was a vicious cycle that was to spark disaster.
“Kandhamal has become a point of experiment for both Christian and Hindu fundamentalists,” said Basanta Mallik, a reader of history at the Utkal University in Orissa.
That movement to Hindu conversion was led by the elderly Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati. It was his killing in August that has sparked nearly two months of communal riots.
Refugees said they fear they would never return home.
Archbishop Raphael Cheenath of Cuttack-Bhubaneswar in Orissa earlier this month described forced conversions back to Hinduism as “systematic”.
Some blame Hindu political groups. Some blame lax police. Others blame underlying, decade-old ethnic and land conflicts.
But there is little doubt that deep-seated religious fears are at the root of the problem.
Some homes now have saffron flags on their roofs to distinguish them from Christians.
Some refugees know villagers have converted to Hinduism. In supposedly globalised India, others receive phone calls from old neighbours telling them to come back, but only as Hindus.
Lalita Digal, a 25-year-old refugee recounted how her house, clothes and rice stores were burnt to a cinder. Her in-laws were then surrounded by people with sticks and axes.
“My in-laws said let us say we are Hindus to make sure we are spared.” She said they were sat around a fire, given new clothes, cleanly shaved and had their hair cut. Then they were forced to recite mantras over a coconut.
A few miles away Ashok Sahu, a Hindu leader and a former inspector general of police, says such claims are exaggerated. The root of the problem, he says, is Christian conversion.
“Christians can go back provided there is no fresh conversion by the Church,” he said over a cup of tea in his upscale house.
“Peace and fraudulent conversion cannot coexist.”
October 9th, 2008 at 9:23 am
emmarcee
your response is based on facts. I agree with you because I know and have met some of the people who have gone through these sufferings. These are facts which are overlooked by almost every one. I hope that our country India still has people who can look at things without bias and blind hatred. I wish you God’s wisdom as you write.
October 9th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
this happens over and over, nothing new with intolerant behavior
October 11th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Keep it up. Dharmo Rakshti Rakshitah (Dharm protects those who protect Dharm).
October 13th, 2008 at 8:02 am
Send this to our PM, President and all the other so called Secular Parties.
October 13th, 2008 at 8:33 am
sapr 333,
You must understand one thing that the whole world want shanthi, but they dont know that where they will get it? for a example if you like a Latdu or dairy milk how much you can eat 2 or three nothing more than that after eating it will you get satisfied no.. if you have big ambition of buying a home after all you bought it will you be satisfied with that no.. That’s wat our our rishis found a culture where more sort of shanthi therin by adopting it slowly you will realize that shathi is not out side but its inside. this is our way of life. In india though we pray so many gods yet the truth in vedas say that agam sath bhahudha vibra vathanthi. though you have there are so many ropa’s but sath(truth ) is only one remains which is yourself. Utill you have mind you will have differences by adopting our dharmas we will reach stage of no man status where you find no differences. You will realize that everywhere existence of yourself with anandha.
Every world trying to find out shathi according to their admospheore&people. So that the culture deffer when Jesus seek love& unity from people 2000year back and said his blood shoul be last. That much of cruelty was there in that area no mercy out there in that people mind. Hence a saint jesus avathar at jerusalam to teach them love. But in india 2700 year back a saint came and teach jeeva caruneeyam ie no one should not kill even ant or small creature by mistake also. Level of thinking is deffer according to people mentality. Every one knows that god is not too many names but we gave name to god. But the culture that created for the lacs years in bharath need to be restore which will be.
I also dont agree that what happened in oorisa,its shamefull. And cristian also must stop preaching every people. if people like they will come to them why should they sell. Is it party or is it association where jesus is leader. if any god ask for more number of person to join to his group or party its also shamfull…
October 13th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Finally the liberal antichristian media of USA had to publish a story on Orissa:
On Sunday evening, as much of Kandhamal remained under curfew, Mr. Chauhan sat in the hall of a Hindu school in the state capital, Bhubaneshwar, beneath a huge portrait of the swami. A state police officer was assigned to protect him round the clock. He cupped a trilling Blackberry in his hand.
Mr. Chauhan denied that his group was responsible for forced conversions and in turn accused Christian missionaries of luring villagers with incentives of schools and social services.
He was asked repeatedly whether Christians in Orissa should be left free to worship the god of their choice. “Why not?” he finally said, but he warned that it was unrealistic to expect the Kandhas to politely let their Pana enemies live among them as followers of Jesus.
“Who am I to give assurance?” he snapped. “Those who have exploited the Kandhas say they want to live together?”
Besides, he said, “they are Hindus by birth.”
Hindu extremists have held ceremonies in the country’s indigenous belt for the past several years intended to purge tribal communities of Christian influence.
It is impossible to know how many have been reconverted here, in the wake of the latest violence, though a three-day journey through the villages of Kandhamal turned up plenty of anecdotal evidence.
A few steps from where the nun had been attacked in Nuagaon, five men, their heads freshly shorn, emerged from a soggy tent in a relief camp for Christians fleeing their homes.
The men had also been summoned to a village meeting in late August, where hundreds of their neighbors stood with machetes in hand and issued a firm order: Get your heads shaved and bow down before our gods, or leave this place.
Trembling with fear, Daud Nayak, 56, submitted to a shaving, a Hindu sign of sacrifice. He drank, as instructed, a tumbler of diluted cow dung, considered to be purifying.
In the eyes of his neighbors, he reckoned, he became a Hindu.
In his heart, he said, he could not bear it.
All five men said they fled the next day with their families. They refuse to return.
In another village, Birachakka, a man named Balkrishna Digal and his son, Saroj, said they had been summoned to a similar meeting and told by Hindu leaders who came from nearby villages that they, too, would have to convert. In their case, the ceremony was deferred because of rumors of Christian-Hindu clashes nearby.
For the time being, the family had placed an orange flag on their mud home. Their Hindu neighbors promised to protect them.
Here in Borepanga, the family of Solomon Digal was not so lucky. Shortly after they recounted their Sept. 10 Hindu conversion story to a reporter in the dark of night, the Digals were again summoned by their neighbors. They were scolded and fined 501 rupees, or about $12, a pinching sum here.
The next morning, calmly clearing his cauliflower field, Lisura Paricha, one of the Hindu men who had summoned the Digals, confirmed that they had been penalized. Their crime, he said, was to talk to outsiders.
“luring by social services” hmm… what a stupid explanation for raping and killing people!!
October 13th, 2008 at 10:11 am
and diluted cow dung? Pity!!
October 13th, 2008 at 10:12 am
This is not santhi brother, this is final resolution? as the BD poster says, “what is the solution?”
October 14th, 2008 at 2:49 am
hai emmarcee,
wat once saw will reap every sort of action there will be equal sort of re action . This is not just for human or animal its even for earth, sea and nature too. That is why all this earth quake Tsunami,storm in usa etc., we have to live and let others also dont interfer others offers and one should not spoil & desturp others interest , culture,nuture for any matters. Then we have to face the tune . This simple sicence every one should know this is for all crisstian,muslim,Bharathian(hindu,siks,jain&bhudist).
We must learn from past history. In the name of jesus 2 billion people died during mugal we lost many inidans too. there is religion by name jews is viped out by RC’s. Now Same RC’s in eroupe being eroded by its own people.(action & reaction)
we have to live & let others too.
Its better that govt can take action that there should be single complex in which all religion temple and all have to gather toghther. We must understand that there is no difference in god, we only name for god, and god never say my name is so and so. what ever name and image are not true we must understand that and we have to search of (truth) sathia vasthu
October 14th, 2008 at 3:22 am
Easwar>>>And cristian also must stop preaching every people. if people like they will come to them why should they sell>>
I believe, I have a good messge of Truth.. So do you … Is it not right to proclaim it to others.. Else, how will other know that we are carrying the Truth Message….
You be yourself, and my team be myself is nothing but forcibly blind folding or blocking others who seeks knowlege/truth. This is exactly the same as the Varna attitude,which denied Dalits from seeking Knowlege/education…
You have every right to reject the truth…But you have no right to speak on behalf of others to reject a truth. There is nothing called selling here, its just Proclaiming the truth or educating the knowledge about God.
Take for eg, a SIMI guy, who believes planting bomb is the truth he explored from his god’s teaching…According to you, you should not point to him/sell your ideas, that he is following a wrong truth..And you want me to stay idle, and wait for him to get attracted to it? A truth should be proclaimed/propagated at all cost,
October 14th, 2008 at 8:57 am
You mean to say that what ever west had done for Jews for conversion is good and truth. Truth to whom killing 2 billion people after Jesus is just way of educating. Is that happened any time in bharath. You must know that valmigi who wrote ramayan is hunter is not bramin or vaysiyan, All the veda being segregated by maharishi Vyas who is son of fishermen. I can number many people what you are trying to say is absolute western talk paralyzing indian growth.
You mean to say they killing resident of american, newzealand,Australian, south african by simply saying hunting animals is that you are justifying. I hope and dont belive that you are indian cultured person. I really taken aback that you say they are educating truth & god. They say that jesus only god and savier if i am not follwing him i will go to hell, even if am adhere truth. You know they say that person who does crime and sin if they come to cristian will go to heaven and also say that they can do 7 such crimes ( which is allowed) is that you want convey that truth.
In india veda as per maxmuller 4000years (which isnot correct ageless) It says Sathiya meva Jayathay- Sathiyam vada dharmam shara. No where in the world proclaim such truth. When jesus trying for love unity between human, In India Mahan Bhuda talking of love between human & ant(animal,creature) & nature. what you are talking. All world have to study india what is secularisam, which is their in our blood its stupid to know western culture(critianisam) to india. Let them go and teach such in arabia if they can.
White & black problem is correct, You know white cant go to school untill 1975, they killed as many as australian & red indian just by say hunting animal is that you justify.
October 14th, 2008 at 8:59 am
hey sapr 333
You mean to say that what ever west had done for Jews for conversion is good and truth. Truth to whom killing 2 billion people after Jesus is just way of educating. Is that happened any time in bharath. You must know that valmigi who wrote ramayan is hunter is not bramin or vaysiyan, All the veda being segregated by maharishi Vyas who is son of fishermen. I can number many people what you are trying to say is absolute western talk paralyzing indian growth.
You mean to say they killing resident of american, newzealand,Australian, south african by simply saying hunting animals is that you are justifying. I hope and dont belive that you are indian cultured person. I really taken aback that you say they are educating truth & god. They say that jesus only god and savier if i am not follwing him i will go to hell, even if am adhere truth. You know they say that person who does crime and sin if they come to cristian will go to heaven and also say that they can do 7 such crimes ( which is allowed) is that you want convey that truth.
In india veda as per maxmuller 4000years (which isnot correct ageless) It says Sathiya meva Jayathay- Sathiyam vada dharmam shara. No where in the world proclaim such truth. When jesus trying for love unity between human, In India Mahan Bhuda talking of love between human & ant(animal,creature) & nature. what you are talking. All world have to study india what is secularisam, which is their in our blood its stupid to know western culture(critianisam) to india. Let them go and teach such in arabia if they can.
White & black problem is correct, You know white cant go to school untill 1975, they killed as many as australian & red indian just by say hunting animal is that you justify.
October 14th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Easwar? Hi, we just have to keep this going since you guys keep putting down Christianity as some kind of alien crazy foolish cult where people are running around killing other people. To start with Christians had suffered plenty of abuses and persecution starting from Jewish priests. You know very well that up to more than 200 years Christians were persecuted. Even when Christianity spread to Europe, Jews who did not have their own land were able to survive there, since they were looked up on as Jesus’s people. Well, just like Hindus see Islam now, common people hated them because they were outsiders and always stick with their own people, no matter where they live. Also, they were mostly into cut throat business dealings. If you have some exposure to western world you will understand that. Mostly its all political. The dream of Christians is to get most of the Jews to accept Jeus as the Messiah. As you know Christianity started as a division of Judaism but as Jews had more narrower definition about Gods Grace they really did not accept the universal Christian religion as we see now. THIS caused trouble on mboth sides. Jews always knew the truth that there existed a very holi man called Jesus who performed lots of miracles including coming back from death. But they will not respect him because - ofcourse he was not a prince, not a warrior, did not give them independence from the Romans and to top that called himself son of God. He was the proverbial “Stumbling Block”. So they even made up stories that Jesus worked with Devil etc, they even made up a fake book on Jesus story. You should know that this is not 21 century. Persecutions were common and there was no “human rights” watch. See how Romans destroyed Jerusalem?. So point is that nobody is better than the other person and we always find reason to attack others.
Hindus persecuted Budhists and there is proof fr this. This went on till the Great Sankara debated with Budhists and the people mobbed and killed the Budhists after Sankara’s great victory, so called. Brahminism had a great way of propagating themselves. They give divine validity to Kings and their rules. They made differnt origin kings (like Dravida kings) “kshatriya” letting them have a racial mix with them. The same things happened with the Huns of west India who were turned into “kshatriya” rajputs. Real historians know all these things. But the system in India is still in the hands of Brahmins so they keep spreading the myth of “sanathana Dharma”. This system was good for the British too, so they encouraged it. So let me tell you these nice Brahministic hindus were so nice with outsiders but were terrorising their own people. The Nazi party of India wants to bring back the same system where they have the advantage. So they spread the myth of Pan-indianism which is a typical Nazi myth. (Pan Germanism) This is same as Hindutwa. Same old poison new bottle.
October 14th, 2008 at 9:44 am
and I don’t understand why tie “Christ Jesus” to the white man and say this is all beacause of Chrisitianity. But again though it was not a great way to convert anybody, I am sure that native Indians lives improved after getting converted to Christianity. Just read how wild the great Azteks were and read how the old Indian civilizations collapsed after cannibalizing each other. I guess Hindus would have left them just like that if they found eating each other. After all it was their “Dharma”.
October 14th, 2008 at 9:45 am
I mean native Indians
October 14th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Easwar>>>Truth to whom killing 2 billion people after Jesus is just way of educating. Is that happened any time in bharath>>
First of all, present your figures right..Even Swastika Nazi genocide was 6Mn… 2Bn seems to be an exaggerated figure.. Any ways, as you asked, let me update you with the killings in Bharath..
1) The great Mahabaratha wars..What that holy book is all about other than killings on war? Killing the black dravidians!!
2)Next, the genocide instigated by Adi-Sankara to exterminate Buddhists from Bharath..
3) Off late, 2000 human life’s in Gujarath, in a week…Nothing such happened in this 21st century..
So please dont put your foot on your mounth. And it lead us no where to a healthy debate. Understand the idea of Civilizational/Cultural growth as time passed by..As EMMARCEE put’s it right, those days, there were no Human Rights Watch.
>>>You must know that valmigi who wrote ramayan is hunter is not bramin or vaysiyan>>
It was possible, but on this moden day of human rights, can the same hunter tribe be allowed to enter Puri /Tirupati temple. Can a hunter become a Sankaracharya with the help of Bajarngi’s? Aren;t you confining things by birth and stratifying them.
>>>You mean to say they killing resident of american, newzealand,Australian, south african by simply saying hunting animals is that you are justifying>>>
No way.. Even before Christ’s days, Prophet Moses gave us the Ten Commandment, “Thou Shalt Not Kill”. So according to Jesus Christ’s teaching, its all wrong and sin.
>>>>They say that jesus only god and savier if i am not follwing him i will go to hell, even if am adhere truth>>
You have every right to accept/reject Jesus Christ’s teaching. So where’s the problem, other than what Bajrangi’s are creating?
>>>and also say that they can do 7 such crimes ( which is allowed) >>>>
As far as Jesus Christ’s teaching, any one who is away from the Absolute Holiness of God is a sinner,and there no such 7 excuses..Please enlighten me!!!
>>>When jesus trying for love unity between human, In India Mahan Bhuda talking of love between human & ant(animal,creature) & nature. >>
You are getting exposed here about your weakness about Buddhism. Buddha’s did’nt have a about God. And his love for animals is only on economic grounds, ie, he revolted against Brahmins for killing cow,which was the sole bread winner… Do you know Buddha died of loose-motion by eating pig..Remeber,Buddha was a Non-vegetarian till death…
>>You know white cant go to school untill 1975>>>
I do agree before 70’s a Black is deprived of education and basic human rights.. But do you know what changed it all.. A Christian Doctrine,that, ‘God created every humans out of his Image”( not 4 varna gods).. Remember, those who fought for Black liberation were white Christians..
October 15th, 2008 at 1:53 am
spar 333
dont beat about bush answer to question, Have they not killed 2 billion people in the name of religion. white black problem still there or not. do they vanish jews or not. how come you say they are truth and their culture is good?
October 15th, 2008 at 1:54 am
I will explain about your quition eve please.
October 15th, 2008 at 4:43 am
wonder why my comments were not considered worth publisihng and replying.I only wished to state that the booklets like “Asatya darshini” shd be brought to the notice of police ,their publishers shd be arrested and printing press shd be locked. This is the least expected from from Govt in Karnataka which is not pseudo secular.
October 15th, 2008 at 7:10 am
Vivekanada halady,
“I only wished to state that the booklets like “Asatya darshini” shd be brought to the notice of police ,their publishers shd be arrested and printing press shd be locked. This is the least expected from from Govt in Karnataka which is not pseudo secular.”
Do you know why they are not doing it ? If they do they themselves will be caught. This is not what it looks outside. There is more to it. It is is a well organized game plan .
If you find Sathya darshini’s orginal print you will not have any thing denigratory what they show here because new-life people have been saying that the literature they show is not theirs and that they have is different which was shown on NDTV. Now You should understand who has done it and what is the reason behind it and what will happen if CBI enquires it. right?
Next general elections are around the corner and how do they counter congress which now has become UPA. Last time during assembly elections they got mercy from people of karnataka because kumaraswami’s cheating. Every time same issue cannot be raised. Right?
then they have planned to take up religious devide and seek votes from majority just the way they did after babri demolition. From just 2 seats they jumped to rule india, if you remember right?. Now they want to counter sonia- factor and what better option than to attack on personal religion of congress head and , editing and printing of sathyadarshini was pre-planned till the executions of simultanious attacks. The only problem was that Mahendra kumar accepted and boasted that they did it which exposed V>K>ACHARYA’s farce that bhajrang dal did not do it. finally mahendra kumar was asked to resign and eat his words. And when fear of losing power by president’s rule loomed large they started acting.
Donot fall prey to these cowards’ vicious design Mr. Halady. We have a beautiful religion. Let us spread it by good work and bhakti than hatred and attacks.
They are not ready for CBI enquiry which would expose who the real culprits are.
October 15th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Easwar>>>Have they not killed 2 billion people in the name of religion.>>
I was only asking the figure tally for 2 Bn, which seems to be exaggerated.
>>> white black problem still there or not. >>
Yes, inspired by the teachings of Christ, they enacted laws and enforced it and brought it down tremendously..But its sad, still we are not in a position to accept casteism as mistake. Can we abolish caste? We skin dalits for skinning a dead cow. Value of animal is higher than human life…
>>>do they vanish jews or not. how come you say they are truth and their culture is good?>>>
Where did I claim Christian;s are truth ful and Christian culture is good.. I am only evaluating 2 religious doctrines here on the basis of Absolute Holiness,Righteousness and Good Morals.. If you want to compare its followers, then its a different debate, which Im sure you would expect the unexpected.. for eg, 3000 years of Hindu Varna Brahminic slavery of 700Mn people is noway neared to 150 years of Black slavery over 3Mn people..
October 15th, 2008 at 8:59 am
>>>I only wished to state that the booklets like “Asatya darshini” shd be brought to the notice of police>>
The court would definitely ask them to explain the allegation( like I asked).. And I am sure there would be no convincing answer, except for a standard excuse “Way Of Life”..
First of all, Bajragi’s should teach about Hinduism to Hindus.. 99% of Hindu’s do not know its own doctrines and blink and instead of debating they feel that their sentiments are hurt..
Keep aside religion.. All of us should read some of the debates of aetheism Vs Theism. How much Aristotle, Plato has raised philosophical questions, which stand far above, our claim of great hindu philosphy. In this era of modern communications,Internet,TV and advanced studies, in order to cope us with this, Hindu’s should be educated first.. If time permits, please also google though some of the debates between Islamic Vs Buddhist Vs Christian scholars, which would definitely open your eyes. Sads, we dont find hindus there.
October 15th, 2008 at 9:13 am
EMMARCEE>>>I don’t understand why tie “Christ Jesus” to the white man and say this is all beacause of Chrisitianity>>>
This typically explains the mentality of caste-hindu’s who stratify/codify humans according to Varna(Colour)..Varnashrama is a holy book and Manu’s manusmriti is their civil code of life, which helped 3% white skinned Aryans to oppress 80% dalit/OBC’s in the name of million gods.
btw, Christ is not a white man. He came to earth not as a king , as the followers expected, but he was born in a mancher(cow shed) in a lowest meek wandering normadic tribe called Jews… And he himself said, he is for all man kind , not alone for jews..
(Can you feel how much it differs to Deepak kamat’s ideology of Hindu Nationalism, which want to confine its god only to India… If pakistan/bangladesh/Srilanka is lost on war, the, hindu gods have lost the war.. funny….)
Guys first, lets understand the concept of God… God is the Creator with Absolute Holiness, Absolute Justice,Righteousness and All Powerful…Do any one differ with me on this.. Shall we head on our discussion based on this basic frame work? I would really appreaciate if any one presents the counter argument to this..thanks.
October 15th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Thanks Vaishali for bringing up the political stinker. Everybody, incluidng Kanath knows this is all about politics. They claim Christians numbers increased in India, hmm, how much 0.2 percent? They know Indians, especially privileged upper castes are not going to Chrisitianity any way. Most of the converts in these parts are poor people whose lives are changing whether the upper strata likes it or not. Hindutwa ie Pan-Indianism is only for the destruction of India as we see now.
October 15th, 2008 at 10:27 am
sapr 333
What you say of ariya dravida is myth and created by John mccallay & max mullar . Mccallay conveyed in parliment that Indian education system is very good people or following truth and further said he doesnt belive how people are so good. To change india its required to change indian education system they only changed. They have agreed also in london university they have removed arya and dravid invation which is myth created by john mccallay & maxmullar team. Your fundamental theory itself baseless which british has agreed . british paralized whole world by dividing for which you and me are fighting.
NOw let me give solution, which all hindus will agree, will you confirm cristian will agree. God is only one - name of god differ - hence who ever like which ever god like they can pray - temple for all god in same roof- let us remove all religionity in india- there will be no religion from today- all god are equal- All are equal- Only citizenship -no individual identity.
Can you confirm that wether cristian will agree to it.
October 15th, 2008 at 10:29 am
The messages are: religious freedom are freedom of expression which should be the pillars of a democratic nation. Facist ideologies will go down eventually. Why should you ban the book and arrest the person anyway? Why don’t the Hindu pundits write apolegetic books and try to educate their people? or say that everything that comes out of these Puaranas could not be correct events but probabaly somebody’s fantasy and myths and actual faith is something beyond that. Liberals and atheistic people attack Christianity on a daily basis. Still we survive. Eupropean people have become very materialistc and post modern, so they really don’t care about religion. Of course the same Hindus criticizing Christian missionaries are glad that their missionaries are converting Europeans. (since there is spiritual vacuum in Europe aming plentiness). Show that your faih actually do good things for humanity , especially among the poor of India. Don’t tell me that India does not have money. I think there is plenty to go around if we want to. That will be the best way to fight conversion.
October 15th, 2008 at 10:33 am
EMMARCEE>>>>>They claim Christians numbers increased in India, hmm, how much 0.2 percent? >>
I have read from the sangparivar sites, that, the followers of Christ’s ideolgoy of “Love Thy Neighbour” has increased to 6% in India. Do you think any common would go and wait in the Magistrate Court (As Indian law of anti-conversion claims) to get a certificate from a man, to prove his love and communion with True God?
>>>They know Indians, especially privileged upper castes are not going to Chrisitianity any way.>>
They dont need too.. Cos in the name of their gods, they get the privlilege what they wanted, unless they know whats right& wrong and whats sin..
>>>Most of the converts in these parts are poor people whose lives are changing whether the upper strata likes it or not.>>>
In this modern era of communication, I’m sure philosphies and doctrines gets evaluated and scrutinized..The teaching which accpeted the Basic Human Rights and Moral living will succeed..All we need to do is, just, sit and watch and proclaim the truth.
>>>>Hindutwa ie Pan-Indianism is only for the destruction of India as we see now.>>>
Not now.. They destroyed it for last 2000 years.No culture has succeded and flourished, after denying the basic human rights and value for human life… Though we may not live to see, but a civilization which deprived the basic education rights for 3000 years until democracy, I’m sure its not worth it..and it would only be in history like greeks/romans/aztecks/sumerians etc etc..
October 15th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Esawar, open your third eye and look around. I might partially agree that the god forsaken British people supported the catse system since it worked for them. But you cannot blame Britishers for creating a system that you say started from Manusmriti. Swami Vivekanda said Kerala is a mad house because he saw how bad the caste system was. Thankfully little Kerala changed dramatically over short period. IT WAS TRUELY A COLONIZATION OF REGULAR FOLKS OF THE LAND BY BRAHMINS. Deny this all you want, but it is the truth.
Do you think an upper caste Brahmin and a common south Indian look alike? More than anthropplogical issues, real scholars have done great linguistic studies to show that there has been a second wave of Proto-Indo European people through Indus valley (i forgot - may be 1400 BC?). It will be hard to prove things genetically till we get very sophisticated tests, because all the gene pools are mixed now. Still existing system proves that these different groups still keep to their own. Some of the gods, could have been purely Indian (or Dravidic), but some especially Vedic ones were purely PIE origin. We can find equivalent god heads up to Greece. Rama is a king whose myth is from Iran. I am confounded about krishna. Could have been different versions. Some Dravidic? Anyway Mahabharata was written after Yavana encounter. The only proof of the word “Vasudeva” is from a Asoka pillar? who knows if this was the Krishna as we know now. and of course nothing was written in Devanagiri Sanskrit till India’s classic?golden age. What is truth, what is not?
I just read something, Iranian scholars used to call SD Hindus, “Brahmin”. Why? they were the propagators, the wheels and benefactors of this faith. They connived with ruling factions, just like the British, to suppress the majority common people through religion. Validation by priests was a big thing in olden times. This was the norm even in Hebrew history in Bible. Look at Iran, aliving example. The masses are fools. The priests will tell the people that the kings are direct representaion of gods. From Egypt to Rome, to Iran. Could India be different. Fool yourself. The kings became gods again and again. Ofcourse then there is need for re-incarnation and avatars. Now we have to explain all that nasty Rajadharma they have to adhere to, including protecting the lazy non-working Brahmins. Only few knew how to write. Ofcourse that will be the Brahmin the sole keeper of the word knowledge. Create stories after stories. After two thousand years we get ignorant masses who think our “knowledge of Dharama” is Sanatana truth. At the same time there is the side show of idol worship and all types of tribalistic rituals going on. (almost like Catholic faith now). that sideshow is for the masses who really want to see an image of the god as well as a nice paying job for the pujari.
October 16th, 2008 at 9:02 am
sapr 333
Your answer: killing 2 billion people by name of jesus
I was only asking the figure tally for 2 Bn, which seems to be exaggerated
Ok let it be 50 crore only now is that is ok for jesus to build league?
Yes, inspired by the teachings of Christ, they enacted laws and enforced it and brought it down tremendously
Why do you worry when i ask such question and what tremendously? We all know that you hide your identity just showing that you a just seculare person In india seculare means supporting critian or muslim is secular do you know? dont hide we know you are cristian nothing wrong in it?
Why were trying to answer my question why did not answer this question.
Be frankly and say in the name of jesus that
Name of gods is differ but god is only one (krisna and jesus and joohowa and allha are same)
We cristian are ready for praying in a temple/ church in which all religion god/prayer hall can be made.
We cristian know all are praying god and if we do good go better and if we commite bad may not be .
We cristian and relaize all gods are same as like as jesus-will you proclaim or any missionary ready to say then we will have peace every where.
We Indian ready for that if any missionary ready to make this am giving you gurantee that let all indian gurus also come together and joint hands with you . Are (cristian) you ready answer me. dont beat about bush clean answer yes we are ready and frankly agree with your open mind dont hide and talk policy like western people please.
October 16th, 2008 at 9:30 am
dear emmarcee, we nice to read your masagges and thanks. Let me explain - Starting from rig veda no where there is mention of any other place or culture other than india - ganga, sarswat,yamun, kavery,kothavari,etc., himalaya,vidiya, pujab, sind,sowratra,indarprastha,ayodiay,gaya,kanchi(dravid - is a name of place.) and its mention arya- even bhudha is called arya puthrar - it mean one who has knowledge it is - arya a has meaning- dravid has no meaning but its place name.
In veda there is no quote of any other country or culture if they are coming from other country we must have some quoting which must be there in text.
Also we must know that they are similarity in western / arabia/asian launguage with sanskrit as well tamil too it means tamil and sanskrit suppose to be oldest launguage wher in other language would have come. example-culture-kalachar(tamil&sanskrit)-Kalthura(italy) and many too.
matha(sanskrit)-mother Pithru-father- paradesh-paradise-threeyo- three-one tamil in english one-katamaram(tamil)catamaran english like many i can say- India’s tamil& sanskrit supposed to be father mother for all world languages becouse all other world launguage some way or other connect with us. Like wise god also same migrated from india for a example our athma become adam our jeev become eve..
Thank you
October 16th, 2008 at 9:53 am
EASWAR>>Ok let it be 50 crore only now is that is ok for jesus to build league?
Even if its killing one person, its definitely wrong according to the ‘Teachings of Jesus Christ”..So what you want to say? I can even go one step beyond… Even the stone throwing acts by Mangalore Christians is wrong, according to Christ , who taught to share the ‘Left Cheek to the one who slaps on right cheek”..But int he same context, which teaching you would point to Hanuman Brigade, who resorts to Raping Nuns/Torching alive/Murder/Oppression/discrimination….Do you have something to share??? I can only see most of them justifying the acts, may be, thanks to doctrine of KARMA..
>>We all know that you hide your identity just showing that you a just seculare person >>
Let me know where I have hidden my identity?.. I do believe in secularism, rather, I call it as ‘Freedom of thought and freewill”…What Identity you want from me.. Any ways,, my personal profile goes here.. I am single,Catholic, who got education/discipline from some of India’s finest Jesuit schools, and an Engineering degree & MBA from the finest institutions of India.. Now, here is the problem with you.. You dont want to respond to my points, rather you are only curious to know my profile/identity/colour etc..A typical varna attitude… sad u guys!!
>>>>Name of gods is differ but god is only one >>>
I do agree with you totally. But can a rapist/murderer/womanizer/nose cutter/ be a god? Or atleast a human with such attitude reach God? Lets use our god given freewill/mind/analysis to seek this. I would really appreciate a positive response from you..Cos, I am not bound by any religion by birth, as most hindus claim… I am only seeking the ‘True Path To God”.. Please convince me.. Dont go away!!
>>We cristian and relaize all gods are same as like as jesus-will you proclaim or any missionary ready to say then we will have peace every where.>>
You need to convince/prove me that Jesus Christ is one and the same like Krishna/Rama/Mohammed.. Please attempt to convince me on this
>>> Are (cristian) you ready answer me.>>
Please respond to my posts and convince me. Lets be on the pursuit of truth.. I am not identifying myself as a Catholic just because my parents were one.. I know God has given me free-will… I really appreciate your effort to convince me. Thanks in advance
October 16th, 2008 at 10:02 am
>>>easwar
October 16th, 2008 at 9:30 am >>>in response to EMMARCEE>>
Of the whole post, you are only trying to identify God with Rivers/Geography/Culture….
You believe in god Rama/Shiva right!! But you carefully forgot he is a creator,who is beyond all there worldly/materialistic things..
What if India is occupied by Communist Russians and puts aethism all across. .. Do you thing your idea of god is dead? (OR) let me put it bluntly….Your gods were expelled by Russians….
October 16th, 2008 at 10:28 am
EASWAR>>>Like wise god also same migrated from india for a example our athma become adam our jeev become eve..>>>
So you don’t believe that God is all Powerful the creator of whole Universe?? So you think gods originated from India and moved to conquer the rest, like any other king..
I think you are taking a suicidal attempt in logics!! Please get enlightened about your Veda’s atleast..
October 16th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Easwar, I did n’t say that Vedas don’t have Indian origin. Ofcourse that is why we say the first “hindu” culture was a vedic culture. But you can see that veneration of “ganga” was not that evident in Rigveda. Also, it is evident that the verses were written down centuries later thus adding new findings and locations. If you are so sure where is Saraswati? Is n’t it really the rivr in current Iran? Lool at this:
“Considerable philological debate has taken place about the roots of the nomenclature ‘Saraswati’, which is referred to by the name Harkhaiti or Haravaiti (in Avesta) in regions further west of India. The contentious point debated is whether the syllable Ha in the river’s name changed to Sa, later in India or Sa to Ha outside India. The choice of the name, Saraswati or Harkhaiti, depended upon whether one considered Aryans, the ancient inhabitants along this riverine system, as indigenous people who, upon their migration, carried the name Saraswati westwards where linguistic growth changed Sa soon to Ha; or, whether they were migrants from west of India who brought with them the name Harakhaiti which changed to Saraswati once they settled here2.” written by a Hindu man a true scholar.
It is beyond doubt that early Iranians and “Brahmins” shared a common past.
The only prooof for a king Rama is from a king lived at the time of Hamurabbi, who was probably big enough to fight a war with Hamurabbi. The name of this king was Rama-san.
The epic of Ramayana was written based on some earlier myths. Why is there a real similarity to the story of Helen being abducted to the story of Sita. It was a great epic with monkey army etc, an equivalent of modern star wars.
Mahabharata - the great epic war? is there any eveidence of this big war happening. Dig all over India. No, you will not find it. Because it was a mythical war. Both epics written at the start of India’s golden era of Hindu Kings.
How manu Hindu pandits have dares to look at these things critically? Why are they complaining about people who do? We do the same things with Bible. I agree with someone in the forum about the “genocides” written in the bible. Why, this is from oT and written for jews and their own priests were trying to reason this massacre by putting god in there. If you know anything about Judaic religion, now historians are really doubting if the Great kingdom of David ever existed. Because they could n’t find any archeolgical evidence. This stories could have been concocted by Judaic priests who wanted to show that Jersalem is the center of one holy Judaic religion and old temple, especially the Jews were returned by Persian kings. Also, there are many contraversies about the first few chapters of OT whoch we don’t want to touch here.
Point is these holybooks were written by men and you should study these with archeological and historical questions. Otherwise you tend to follow blindly.
YOu should open your eyes and see that Iran is not that far from India. Big populations shifted all the time. They have found enough evidence for so called Arian people in Messopotamia. (google Mittani) I am not saying that they attacked and killed Indus Valley people. It is just a demographic shift. Ofcourse Budhism is based on Vedic culture. But again , not the Hinduism that we see now. The current Hinduism is basically based on devotion to one of the many human-gods.
October 16th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
EMMARCEE>>>I agree with someone in the forum about the “genocides” written in the bible>>>
Old Testament is the record of God’s initial relationship with man, to establish his kingdom in this world to have a loving relationship with man&God..
All the sins were well recorded..Every sin of prophets were recorded..Incests were recorded..Rapes were recorded in O.T..But the central theme is, God Punishes the Sinners, and Forgive those seek forgiveness for their sins by heart.. Even King David/Moses did sin.. Moses even was punished not to see the land of honey(Cannon), just because he sinned.. Thats the moral..
We cannot draw parallels to Mahabaratha& Ramayana war crimes..Cos there is no sin /wrong there, accoring to Deepak Kamat’s reponse few weeks ago.
October 16th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
sapr333, I see man’s hands in all these books and god’s hands behind the man. Through the OT you can see the Hebrew is taking a path to the realization of the only true path, jesus. Hebrews wrote up all the laws they want to, but they could n’t measure up to it. They judged and they were found to be wanting.
October 16th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
sapr, we keep correcting each other. There are only couple of storeis of incest. Prophets — i am not sure who did sin in a bad way. I think we should not give wrong ideas to people that every person mentioned in the bible is a prophet. Prophets are different, great men (Moses and david) are different, priests are different. But right nobody matched with the grace of the Lord. So we all fall short, that is the message.
October 16th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
and now I just thought about this. How could Muslims say that Prohet Muhammed is infalliable and Catholics say Pope is infalliable. Well, I think there is no perfect religion in the world. Take what you like.
October 16th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
For all the people who brings up ” i did not come to cause Peace”, you should know the context of the verse. This is a prediction- a prophesy. Jesus had to say this because deciples always saw this meek person, healing sick, helipng poor, being nice to gentiles (non Jews) even to sinners and political outcasts like tax collectors. So his title was as a man of peace. Here Jesus is trying to show the deciples that trouble times are ahead of them. Persecution is going to start, starting from his own death on the cross. True believers in this Messiah had to split with their own family for his sakes. Prophetically speaking trouble times were going to fall upon Isreal too. A few years after his cricifixion Jerusalem was burnt down and jews were scattered around the world. their world was broken. These Jews will not come back to Israel till 20th century. They still cannot do their sacrifice since they don’t have their temple alter.
and ofcourse, Christians were peresecuted for many centuries which continues even now in countries like India, china, pakistan, Iran, iraq, saudi etc
This is a warning for the trouble times ahead. But not an endorsement to go out and kill your own brother.
October 17th, 2008 at 1:24 am
Sapr.333
You are we very clear that you are zealous &Fanatical approach you dont want unity but trying convince me that jesus is greater of all universe. You are not trying to near or understand that the world will have differces and ofcourse difference and changes in the universe is permanente. the survival is that one who accept others can only. If you try to oppose then there will be a opponent who will ready to hit. If you want survivay agree all try to unite. Dont try to abuse and probe for small bad thing. Good and bad is world,day and night,poverty and rich like wise everything two. when you try to abandon those may survive. Dont abuse 100crore indian but bajangee’s are some thousands are lacs. when you try to convice me white’s are now realizing things are tremendously changing all that you say. you must belive bajrangee also chance but time change is parmanent you know.
You Never answere me that all religion people can pray to gether mingle to gether. Let missionary can joints to gether let all religion become under single roof.
Every one point of view will change from place to place and mind to mind. for a example if you ask west people now they say that india is only great country and indian culture is the great of all and they want to adobt. Now changes comes there who was greater abuser of indian culture ( this is third generation) . there is no this much of dived talk there in other part of India but in chennai onlly but people of south & west part of people Kovai dont talk much of dived people why i am saying this is place to place changes. environment makes the people.
Let us all tald of unity if bad let us all come to gether and fight against why should you dived arya/dravida muslim/cristian let us all become in one roof try for it . You never agree that all gods are same name is different.
Jaihind..(jaiindia)
October 17th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Emmarcee>>>I think we should not give wrong ideas to people that every person mentioned in the bible is a prophet>>>
Bible has an answer for all for. And even Prophets sinned,but sought the forgiveness to Lord..That forgiveness is the central theme… Any one who took birth in this world is bound to sin, except for Jesus Christ who lived a sinless life.
>>Prohet Muhammed is infalliable and>>
I couldnt stop laughing.. I think you need to explore little bit Islam, and it would really enlighten you..esp, the life style of Mohammed as recorded by Islamic holy book Hadith. You would be shocked to know,he broke all the Ten Commandments, and most of these what we see in Islamic world like Polygamy/caravan looting/mass murder/Pedophile/terrorising is all done by him and he stands as a moral inspiration.Truly,he is a local king, who when wanted to become great, as an imposter, he tried to identify himself with Judo-Christian view for quick acceptance..Lots of logical/theological/historical/archeological faults one would find,when we head on with a debate. Thats one reason, Islam asks for ‘Full Surrender To Mohammed” and you are not permitted to evaluate/debate on this,which definitely curtails humans freewill and freedom of thought.
As St.Paul puts it, Critically examine every thing!! which is not permitted in Islam.
http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Islams_Terrorist_Dogma_in_Muhammads_Own_Words.Islam
This link has a popular book ‘Prophet of Doom in .pdf with 30 chapters.. Its worth reading to understand about Mohammed..and interesting too..
>>> Catholics say Pope is infalliable.>>
Its a common err, every body think..Pope is bound to sin, as he is also a common man..Yes, He is infalliable on Doctrines…ie he wont make a Doctrinal mistakes. Only Jesus Christ lived a sinless life, which even Islam accepts this.
Anyways, thanks to Deepak Kamat for creating a platform to bring awareness about Christians and make me share it.. Bajrangi’s acts has made popular about the good services done by Christians in India..Thanks to the media..
October 17th, 2008 at 2:37 am
>>>approach you dont want unity but trying convince me that jesus is greater of all universe>>>
Do you think I will discriminate a Hindu/Moslem(person as such)? If so I am doing wrong according to Jesus Christ’s greatest commandment “Love Thy Neighbour”. I would only show both my cheeks if a hindu slaps me.. Thats the one reason, you dont find much revolt/retaliation for all the church attacks. That’s peace and co-existence.
But you expecting me to accept false dogmas/Doctrines/False Truth, then you need to think about it. Can I co-exist with a faith which ask to kill non-believers? Can i co-exist with a faith which discriminates some one by dalit-birth? No ways…Thats my individual freedom and personal choice of relationship between God and I have the freedom to Proclaim and profess.
Do you want Unity in Humans or Faith system? I give importance to the first..
>>>If you try to oppose then there will be a opponent who will ready to hit.>>>
If someone opposes/questions your doctrine, respond to him the same way. If SatyaDarshini question, please respond to them and convince them, so that they would really love to explore the goodness of Hinduism..
>>Dont abuse 100crore indian but bajangee’s are some thousands are lacs>>
This is exactly what Karan Thapar asked… Do Bajrangi’s represent the 800Mn Hindus? Who has given them the right to speak on behalf? . The owner of this forum Deepak Kamat has said YES..Please have a look at that thread..and his reponses. Having said that, will you agree with me that Bajrangdal should be banned for all their terror actions in line with SIMI?? If so, I agree with your point.
October 17th, 2008 at 2:45 am
Easwar>>>You Never answere me that all religion people can pray to gether mingle to gether>>>
Sure, all religious people should mingle together, dance together, party together and live together.This is a social context, and i welcome this. But how can we expect other to follow a doctrine which is totally indifferent from his choice, unless he is convinced.
Say suppose Im in love with an African girl..My father can tell/force me, to mingle with Indian girls, which I would definitely do..But how can he make my heart to mingle with the girl whoom I dont love.. Can he control my dreams.. Consider this analogy..
Thats one reason, we need to respect the religious freedom..Any one can choose anything ..
Now you may say, conversion is bringing un-rest..
Unrest to whoom? Have the converts complained? No.. Its only the caste-hindus, who loose their hegemony and the Barjangi’s who create a scene..
October 17th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Thanks sapr. quran says the prophet is not sinless, but you may lose your head if you say that to religeous zealots.
October 17th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
EMMARCEE>>quran says the prophet is not sinless, but you may lose your head if you say that to religeous zealots>>
God has given freewill to humans. And God has created us out of his image and hence every human is entitled to have his rights(not the cow).
Hence we all should respect individuals freedom of accepting/rejecting a faith or belief. And the first step is, Democracy which is followed by Religious freedom. We should advocate this . Islam lacks this by its own Mohammed’s teaching and now Hindus follow the suite, thanks to Bajrangi’s and RSS..
See if you could spend 5 minutes of your precious time,on this article written by JNU professor Nivedita Menon, about conversion..She is sharing a good advice to hindu nationalists.
http://www.countercurrents.org/hr-nivedita070504.htm
October 17th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Beats me.
It was a great piece. I am not sure nazi-fascists will agree. they need issues. Otherwise the party cannot grow.
October 18th, 2008 at 1:00 am
sapr 333
Bible has an answer for all for. And even Prophets sinned,but sought the forgiveness to Lord..That forgiveness is the central theme… Any one who took birth in this world is bound to sin, except for Jesus Christ who lived a sinless life.
Now you please tell me a new born baby 8 months old died. As per your laws first birth only. Will it has sin or its equal to jesus. dont try to confuse we indian has knowledge in athiathmiga answer proper. why should it birth and died. what is nessessary for birth why god wants its birth kill mercylessly?( i am confidant merciful) its only question posting answer me dear.
October 20th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Easwar>> please tell me a new born baby 8 months old died>>
I was expecting your reponse to my posts.Thought you were really busy,..anyways…here’s my response.
Back to point..This is exactly what Dr.Annie Besant thought,when her 8month old child died!!!… First of all ,we all will agree to the generic term,that, God has given ‘Free Will’ to us, if not, God would have made us to act on the way he wanted in line with his Absolute Holiness and we all would have been pure like him..According to hindu philosophy which falls in line with Christianity here,ie, if God has not given freewill, all our souls would have been clean(as god wanted us to be),and there is no need for re-birth and sufferings.
With the free will given to humans,anything would happen.. A mother could abort a child, and its an act of freewill,and God has only control over it on the day of Last Judgement.. A father could kill a girl infant.. Nature’s disaster could kill millions, for another man has manipulated the nature by Carbon Monoxide ..a famine could do so, by natures act…
So,Please let me know,where we both differ here..
>>Will it has sin or its equal to jesus.>>
This is a long subject called Original Sin, which calls for long explanation(cos I need write in common man’s understanding tone), and Islamics often ask too… I will definitely respond to it tomorrow..Remind me off, if I forget so..Its truly an interesting one..
>>dont try to confuse we indian has knowledge in athiathmiga answer proper>>>
Did I ever speak in this tone?Oh,please I’m not a Bajarangi..
>>why should it birth and died>>
According to Christian Doctrine, staying away from Sin is the path to reach God and its the ultimate Goal and purpose of life on earth….Birth/death/sufferings/Poverty is all worldly matters… As Jesus Christ said, “Blessed are the Poor” “Blessed are those who suffer in pain”, for thy is the kingdom of God..
PS: I just tried to give a crispy response, but feel free to ask me your clarification..Also, please attempt to answer my earlier posts.
October 23rd, 2008 at 1:57 am
Dear sapr 333
Your answer: we all will agree to the generic term,that, God has given ‘Free Will’ to us, if not,
thank you, : Hope You did not understand my question clearly Hence your answer to question is not line with. kindly think and answer that why nature should act is it part and partial of god or different one. where is generic will come being first birth how is generic term come? can i take generic is bigger than jesus or any god. generic fight with god finally generic won, can i assume it like that, No No..
certainly your not nearing to athiathmigha scientifical thought.
when you say free will, how come new born baby? what mistake did it commite. why nature should do such, since its first birth and suppose to be last too. is nature is not in control of jesus or any other god? nature too faught with god and won .
what and how can you discripe god ?
(i was little busy with official work)
October 23rd, 2008 at 2:11 am
dear SAPr 333,
Not just critianity alone remember all other religion including small , big known or unkown religion moto is to Refrain from sin. My question is how come a new born baby who has no sin earlier died after birth of two month or immd. why should did the child does any sin out there in seconds or in few days.
Why should god give us birth. did i ask him, is it not Mockery, when i not ask he gave and ask me to refrain from sin. I never ask him birth then why should he.(india has answer)
October 23rd, 2008 at 2:42 am
Easwar>>when you say free will, how come new born baby? what mistake did it commite>>>
This is an interesting point..Annied besant used it to prove the existence of Karma..
But the question to be asked before is..
1)What is the purpose of our Life in this world?
Its to live the holy life here in this world and reach to God after death and ressurection. I’m talking about Christian view.. Let me know whats your view on Purpose of life?
2) Is death is a result of sin/mistake?
As per the Christian view, death is not the cause of any sin. If a child dies early, it has less sin,and its chance to reach God is much higher.
I would add here, many used to ask ‘Why God has made people of Africa to suffer in poverty?.. Accodring to Christian view,”Those who suffer will find easy to the kingdom of God’.. So its all Gods mystery, but the answer is logical..
I really appreciate your thoughts on this.. Upon your response, we will debate on the 2 doctrines and also I will present my detailed view.. Thanks..
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:14 am
What do you mean by holy life & suffer in poverty.
With money and without money is like that or any other else?
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:18 am
Easwar>>>Not just critianity alone remember all other religion including small , big known or unkown religion moto is to Refrain from sin>>
The question here is ‘How to define Sin”.. According to Christian view, Anything that distances from the God’s Absolute Holiness,Righteousness, Justics is sin”
If we compare the same thing with Hinduism, then it sounds contradictory,cos the gods of hinduism themselves broken all the Ten Commandments.. In this context, how are going to define Sin(Right & Wrong)…Dont feel bad,this is my generic view..But explore to find what exactly hinduism says about it..
Im sure this yet another interesting point, for both us to debate..
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:22 am
easwar>>>What do you mean by holy life & suffer in poverty.
With money and without money is like that or any other else?>>
Couldnt understand.. come you put it in little detail.. thanks
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:25 am
Do you mean to say people who are enjoying with world pleasure is that of holy life for the sake of it killing and abusing each other having sort of more differences is that is holy.
Your question:
As per the Christian view, death is not the cause of any sin. If a child dies early, it has less sin,and its chance to reach God is much higher
How come new born baby will have less sin is that not first birth?
I agree death is not sin then birth is sin? why should god test us what is his duty just to test that are we doing any sin or not. for that purpose only give us birth?
Ask all this question with your spritual people and let me know. India very well has answer thats why Sir ennstin wants next birthy in india.
I(not my own but all indian discoveries by thousands of rishis & siddha) will try to give answer when you answer my question.
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:34 am
Dear sapr 333
your question:
The question here is ‘How to define Sin”.. According to Christian view, Anything that distances from the God’s Absolute Holiness,Righteousness, Justics is sin”
You mean to say distance from jesus is sin means, Jesus is not creater of distance and sin it has created by some one else hence he did not like that corrct. if wrong tell me how
October 23rd, 2008 at 3:49 am
Easwar>>Jesus is not creater of distance >>
Thought you were joking..Anyways..
Sin is an act which make a man to drift away from the God.. ie, God is believed to be of Absolute Holiness,Righteousness,Justice, and in this light only he has created human. And any act he does, which is unholy,un-right,in-justice, he does a sin.. So right or wrong is decided based upon God’s trait.. This is one view..
Let me hear from you whats your idea of sin or right/wrong? How can we decide which is right and which is wrong? What good idea you have, other than falling in to an aethist view..
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:14 am
creater means good or bad everything must come from the creater only when jesus or god want to create universe if they or it or she or he create only good thing then only good will exist but creation is like this. ie good bad, day night , white block, sweet sore, light dark, man woman, everything two.
when you have two certainly one will have difference when difference comes certainly sin starts. Right or wrong.
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:46 am
Creation:
Agasath vayu hu ; vayur agni hi; agnir apaha ; athiya prithivi ; prithiviya oosha thipyaha; oosha thipyoo annam ; annath purusha ;….. purush annarasamaya ha……..
At the time of birth our wieght is like 3kg now it must be minimum 55 to 70 kg right how we became. food .. correct
when baby carried by mother it puts weight cos of mother consume food which goes to it. Hence this body come cos of food. so purushan (means human+all creature-as per indian discovery) is nothing made out of food body.
Food comes from ooshath (plants) it grows cos of prithivi- prithivi(earth) cos of water- water cos of agni- agni cos of vayu (if no air then no agni) vayu cos of agash vaccum.. So its clear that we all come from agash which is nothing so nothing creates mahath everthing correct.
from vaccum first sound has come veda. next vayu sound and sparisam feel, agni sound, sparisam feel and rupa image from agni only first image starts. then water sound,sarisam,feel,rupa and taste, and finally prithivi above all with kandam (smell)– since we all directly come from earth we have more of kandam only so we like mainly smell. including female smell, food, liquar,—- we cant forget many things be cos of smell only.
This will go never end veda has lot of knowldege which no
wordly scientist denies including IInsstin.
this is first step if you understand and you have any question ask me . many people dont read and dont like to get in to this only who has really will have interst those are god liking sons.
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:53 am
easwar>>>creater means good or bad everything must come from the creater only >>.>>
You got a valid point.. You have perfectly put in a question what atheists claim…and we are heading for a metaphysical talk ie,
If God is all the creator, he too must have created Good and Bad,which is what you are trying to say..Its the same as the great Euthyphro’s dilemma.. If Good and Bad are created by God, then why we need a God? please google this subject,which would be interesting…
Where Morals comes from? What makes us to to do good to others? Whats wrong if I kill/rape? Please ponder.
And respond to me, again, after reading that, how do we distinguish Good n Bad, or Wright and Wrong!!
October 23rd, 2008 at 9:56 am
Easwar>>easwar
October 23rd, 2008 at 8:46 am>>
Can you repost that in an understanding way… I can sense you have a point to say..but then its quite confusing .. Please put that point in nutshell..Thanks..
October 23rd, 2008 at 10:00 am
Easwar, to make it easy for you, i have posted Euthyphros dilemma of Aristotle…a cut n paste from wiki..
Explanation of the dilemma:-
Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God? The first horn of the dilemma (i.e. that which is moral is commanded by God because it is moral) implies that morality is independent of God and, indeed, that God is bound by morality just as his creatures are. God then becomes little more than a passer-on of moral knowledge.
The second horn of the dilemma (i.e. that which is moral is moral because it is commanded by God, known as divine command theory) runs into three main problems. First, it implies that what is good is arbitrary, based merely upon God’s whim; if God had created the world to include the values that rape, murder, and torture were virtues, while mercy and charity were vices, then they would have been. Secondly, it implies that calling God good makes no non-tautological sense (or, at best, that one is simply saying that God is consistent and not hypocritical). Thirdly, it involves a form of reasoning that G.E. Moore classified as a naturalistic fallacy; to explain the claim that murder is wrong (or the proscription that one should not commit murder), in terms of what God has or hasn’t said is to argue from what Moore classified as a putative fact about the world to what Moore classified as a value (see is-ought problem).
October 24th, 2008 at 2:48 am
Dear Sapr 333,
“Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God? The first horn of the dilemma (i.e. that which is moral is commanded by God because it is moral”
Let me clear that am not ethiest, i cant say how god faith i am, that is god only knows it, i leave it to god. Now let me come to you, How do you know that moral comanded by god who has seen god can you show a person that he has seen god. If god is a creater of all then who create god how come he came, before he create universe, where was his existense, his existense was there are not, then how many years, what was he doing all through the days? I am not ethiest? kindly answer these question. India has answer.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:10 am
Sapr 33
If a human kills called murder, any creature or animal kills other animal is it called murder? why we are not considering, you will sometime think that am mad i know it has sense & valid reason for asking and i can answer not my own but indian rishis taught it.
Adam Eve has two sons, one of son looking after field and another goat & sheep, one of them kills another, hence god snuped him, he ask for apology that he should not have 7 sin and nobody in the world throw stones on him… this is old testiment story.. right.. NOw i ask you question on this How come appay kills his brother he is being first person in the earth who taught to kill a person, How does he know that when kills a person its a sin, who taught this to him, do you ever start inquire to it and you have answer to it.
( I dont want story level mistake that are there are only one person and father mother there then who will throw stone on him and then they saerch for marrige to appay after all they find girl to marry him - how come she came - i have no dispute its all story but my question is to search of truth- kindly inquire those) india has answer.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Creation:
Agasath vayu hu ; vayur agni hi; agnir apaha ; athiya prithivi ; prithiviya oosha mayaha; oosha thipyoo annam ; annath purusha ;….. purush annarasamaya ha……..
At the time of birth our wieght is like 3kg now it must be minimum 55 to 70 kg right how we became. food .. correct
when baby carried by mother it puts weight cos of mother consume food which goes to it. Hence this body come cos of food. so purushan (means human+all creature-as per indian discovery) is nothing made out of food body- everyone is food body.
Food comes from ooshath (plants) it grows cos of prithivi- prithivi(earth) cos of water- water cos of agni- agni cos of vayu (if no air then no agni) vayu cos of agash vaccum.. So its clear that we all come from agash which is nothing so nothing creates mahath everthing correct.
All human& animal body is made out of food. food comes with the base of plants, plants comes with the base of earth, further earth with the base of water ( even our local science say from water became earth ) water comes with base of agni- agni comes with the base of vayu (air) vayu comes with the base of agash vaccum. this is how evolution has started as per rigveda that is wat veda hymn reveals. you can read the hymn if you are indian you can very well understand. Till this our local sciece understand) further veda say that from agash created by mana ha. Mind only create this agash also nothing and mind also nothing but sutshama creates sthula (image or visible facts). Every action its taking place becouse of our mind. becouse you and me has diffrence only action here is taking place through our mind. If there is no difference no action in the world. becouse of equilibrium only universe being maintained when we say of equilibrium it clear that there is difference(plus-minus) or we can say by gravitation force. without gravitation no earth sun, even farther mother, son mother, friends, relatives natations… everything meet in one point that gravitation or equilibrium
October 24th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Easwar, thats a good thing..Thats why I asked you to read the aethist view, first to understand the dept of our conversation,though its against the view which Im going to present..
In nutshell, we are taking on with the 2 points which is relevant and we will stick to it..
1) Is moral rooted in God?
2) Why animals dont have sin? (truly a valid question!)..
As said, you are also a theist, I will present my views based on theism..Will post the response in later part of this day..cos im bit tied up..
October 24th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Easwar, let me take the first point.. Rooting of Moral in God.. There are some finest works done by some greatest philosphers/thinkers which is more convincing logically too. Anyways, before heading there, let me put few points in a practical tone..
Lets take Moral is rooted within ourselves and comes through society/culture.. What if an extra terrestial intelligent/tribal comes to earth and rape all women, saying “Hi, its your evolutionary process fo morals,but for us rape is not wrong”. So on what basis we can condemn it? Or on what basis you condemn the rapists, if he claims its a biological process? Hitler is right to him and his people of that time, on what basis we can condemn his act? Is there any way , we can recognize objective moral values without God?
An atheist would say, since you’re going to die, everyone ends up the same. It doesn’t make any difference whether you live as a Hitler or a Mother Teresa?
Let take another point of view, what happens in the absence of God. If we believe, God is our creator, then we are accountable for him to. Otherwise,whats the purpose of life and objective of cration and what accountablity we have..
To start with,I wouldn’t say Moral is based on divine commands. I would say it’s rooted in God’s nature, which is what Plato called “the Good.” It is rooted in God’s very character.(at the moment Im not going to Euthyphros dilemma, as it may confuse you)…
Now do you agree with the basic general statement, Morals are rooted in God? (dont confuse with hindu/christian god..or Bible/gita/Koran)..If we both agree, I can move on to your second intersting question..
October 24th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Easwar, If you are not agreeing to the point, ‘Morals are not rooted in God, then you should explain, where its rooted..Whats the basis/reference/bench mark for Objective morals?
October 25th, 2008 at 3:04 am
dear SAPr. 333
“” If we believe, God is our creator, then we are accountable for him to. Otherwise,whats the purpose of life and objective of cration and what accountablity we have..”"
You have not answer to my question like when did god creat universe before creation what was he doing, how many years, who create god etc,,., I feel you expecting from veda which proclaim that its for universe not for any particular, veda is not created by a single man….
yatha purva…. its starts like this which means earlier how it was same type universe is created. It says creation is not first time many times changes comes from time to time.
When indian do any ceremony used take sangalp. you can take as sathiya praman or Nischaya. at the time prathemay bathe jambu thivibay baratha varushey baratha kanday utharay parshey, thandakarunyay, nimisaranyay,vavagariya utharayaney,ruthu, sashtiya ga,samvasthara ……
which means Now kaliyug, there are four yuga kaliyug,thuvapara,thereatha, sathiya yug companined call chathur yug 49 lac years, such 75 chathur yug is called callpa. once in a callpa universe will will go to vyaktha(image) and avyaktha(image less)