THE FINAL RECONCILIATION
THE OUTCOME OF HINDU-CHRISTIAN NEGOTIATION IN MANGALORE
Christian leaders and Hindu leaders held a meeting to thrash out the differences at The Circuit House in Mangalore.
The Hindu delegation consisted of Prof M B Puranik, Vibhag Sanghachallak and VHP district President, Dr. Prabhakar Bhat, Prant Karyavaya, Dr. Madhav Bhandary, Vibhaga Karyakarini Sadasya, Monappa Bhandary, district BJP President, Shrikar Prabhu, Jagadish Shenava, Rajagopala Rai. The Christian delegation was led by Fr. J B Crasta, Louis Pinto,Felix Alberque, M P Noronha, William D’Souza, Stany Alvares.
The negotiation was held under the supervision of district in-charge Minister Shri Krishna Palemar. The persons who mediated towards bringing both sides together were Dharmaraj, Mangalore-based-builder and S Ramesh, Social worker.
The Hindu delegation put forth its view stating that
- Hindu society was never aggressive and in fact encouraged and promoted plurality in society.
- Christianity grew because of Hindu patronage
- Christians were denigrating Hindu faith through distribution of pamphlets denigrating Hindu God. (Satya Darshini pamphlet distributed by New Life says that Hindu gods were promiscuous and wallowing in darkness of hell).
- Christians were objecting to Hindu articles of faith like Rakhi, bindi, flowers et al
- Christians used the children of Hindu parents when the institutions were protesting against Kandmal violence
- The Christians in Mangalore had even protested when Jayalalitha Government had banned conversion in Tamil Nadu
- They had even pelted stones and had injured policemen who were trying to protect law and order.
- Though the Christian delegation was distancing itself from New Life, they were in fact supporting it by protesting in a big way as if to condone the New Life activities.
- The Schools run by Christians were psychologically dominating Hindu school children as if to give a bad impression about the Hindu faith.
- Harmony can be established only when the Christians observe their religion in private without encroaching on the domain of Hindu faith.
- Conversions were affecting the family life as several families had broken up due to conversion activities.
- Conversions due to inducement and allurements are not in the interest of the society. There is nothing wrong in voluntary conversions.
- The Resurgent Hindu society would not tolerate such proselytisation activities which aim at division rather than integration.
- The Service activities of the Church were more directed towards the ulterior motives of proselytisation.
- The Hindus won’t harm the Christian faith in any way if they do it without forcing it on others. And there would not be any cause for conflict.
- There is no question of social boycott against Christians. In fact, the Hindus are for cordial relations with Christians.
- In case of any further problems, the problems would be solved through bilateral talks involving leaders of both sides.
- The Hindu leaders made it clear that they did not support the attack on the building that housed the Cloistered Nuns. They said that it was inadvertent and it would not be repeated.
The Church leaders put forth its view in the following manner
- Christians are feeling insecure due to the recent spate of violence in New Life prayer halls
- Is it wrong on our part to serve the society?
- We don’t have anything to do with New Life activities except that both of us respect Jesus and Bible.
- Hindu leaders may stop the Hindus from attending New Life congregational meetings.
- Educate the Hindus in such a manner that they refrain from New Life activities.
- In the case of Kandmal incidents, the Hindus had provoked the Christians through banners depicting the Christians in poor light
- Any case of provocation from any side is improper.
- It should not happen. Steps should be taken to improve relations.
- Christians will not resort to conversions in South Kanara and Udupi district.
- The Christian institutions will not prevent the school children from wearing Rakhi, Bindi, flowers et al that depict the Hindu faith.
- The Christian educational institutions will not take the Hindu children to Church
- Since the Catholic Christians do not have any connection with New Life missionaries, it would not object to any action against New Life in connection with proselytisation activities.
- Since Bible and Cross are very holy in Christianity, the Hindus should not damage it any way.
- The Christians would rein in their youths from violent activities henceforth.
- The Christians are distressed with the attack on the cloistered Nuns inside the premises.
Deepak Kamat is Editor in Chief of 'AseemaA', Journal for National Resurgence. Email: deepakmangalore@yahoo.co.in
Fascist Trends in Indian Media
October 16th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Bharath>>If you want to get respect, you have to respect me, and vice versa. >>>
Do you respect a rapist/murderer/vandalizer just because he says so!! I think you would use your common sense here.
>>We are only interested, christians respect Hindu dharma, >>
Will you respect Osama Bin Laden/Mujahideens just because they also believe strongly in something, ie, to kill infidels to protect their idea of god. If you feel hindu dharma has some thing great to offer, share it,debate it, and convince others, instead of raping nuns/torching alive humans/looting.
>>>The day christian missioanry terrorists stop terror on Hindus,>>
In a country where education was denied for 80% of the hindu population in the name of varna(for 3000 years), missionaries ensured that every third Indian is served by Christian missionary education & health care. Do you wanna call this as terrorist activity..Pls dont refer Websters,but not Bajrangdal’s English Dictionary..
October 16th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Bharath>>>Note, tolerance is not one-sided>>>
First of all get yourself cleared Tolerance in India is mostly of Jainism’s influence(definitely not hinduisms), and got propounded by Gandhiji who has lot of Jainic influence because of his Jain friend.. anyways, lets find out what tolerance means..
Philosopher John Rawls in his book ‘A Theory of Justice’ to the problem of whether a just society should or should not tolerate the intolerant, and to the related problem of whether or not, in any society, the intolerant have any right to complain when they are not tolerated.
Rawls concludes that a just society must be tolerant; therefore, the intolerant must be tolerated, for otherwise, the society would then be intolerant, and so unjust.
Can you comprehend??????????????
October 17th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Most Oriya newspapers have reported that Congress Rajya Sabha MP, RK Nayak was involved in the killing of Swami laxmananda in Kandamahal. In fact, he was appointed to Rajya Sabha by Sonia Gandhi’s Congress in 2004 even though IB had an adverse report on him.
====
Cong MP suspected behind VHP leader’s murder
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17911§ionid=4&issueid=75&Itemid=1
…killing of its leader Swami Lakshamananda Sarwasati was hatched in the presence of Congress Rajya Sabha member R.K. Nayak’
—
Maoists were hired to kill Laxmanananda: Police
Thu, Oct 16 11:06 PM
Bhubaneswar, Oct 16 (PTI) In a major breakthrough the Orissa police today claimed that the mastermind behind VHP leader Laxamananda Saraswati’s killing had been identified as a group had hired the Maoists to execute the crime. “Maoists were given money to train certain youths of a particular community to eliminate Saraswati,” Inspector General (IG) of Police, crime branch, Arun Ray told PTI asserting the mastermind of the killings had been identified.
http://in.news.yahoo.com/20/20081016/1416/tnl-maoists-were-hired-to-kill-laxmanana.html
October 24th, 2008 at 5:35 am
@ Sapr33,
Absolutely bullshit.
Ahimsa Paramodharma is a Upanishadic line and contains none of Jain influence. Yet another colonial imposition.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:38 am
@ Sapr33,
Anti-Brahminism is a colonial legacy. Go refer to my earlier articles.
Don’t bark the same tree again and again.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Acharyananda,
I studied in St. Josephs Indian High school in bangalore. Even though they never put a gun on my head and ask me to convert, they have used other subtle ways to try to condition my mind towards thinking Christianity is a better religion. The various methods include making all students sing Christian hymns and recite Xtian prayers at monday morning assembly.
Also students are ordered to attend various session where speakers usually include Xtian missionaries from other parts of India or the world. Bible are freely distributed among students along with other biblical comic books. Catholics get special cathecism class but the hindus need to take moral science (insinnuating that we dont have morals?). What is the problem in having hinduism lessons for the majority of the students who happen to be hindus?
Once in the middle school, when I had gone with some hindu friends to pray in the chapel, one of the older padres came out with a stick and chased us out shouting “Dirty bastard Hindus”. That was an eye opening experience for me.
When it comes to hindu students from better families, the priests in the school know better that to openly proselytize while the poorer students from the kannada medium are fertile land for their machinations. So the focus on english medium students is not blatant expression of pro-xtian agenda but instead it is of making a very subtle mark on the impressionable students so as not to elicit any reaction from the students.
While on paper their work appears very holy and wonderful, it is not the complete story of the Xtian educational institutions.
Also it must be remembered that these institutions came up only due to the massive funding and support from the British. The huge property and money at their disposal is only thanks to the British. It is amusing but this land and money have come from the wealth taken from the hindus. It is not as if the Xtians are doing us any favor; they stole our money and are giving us back just a pittance of what was taken away and they want us to appreciate it!!
November 11th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Also, it is very common to use the example of Mother Teresa to show how compassionate Christians are.
For people who believe in her saintliness, please read the following article,
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/hitchens_16_4.html
It should help remove the lies surrounding the myth of “Mother ” Teresa.
November 12th, 2008 at 3:30 am
Naren,
You have argued the point with the conclusion in mind. We need to have an open mind because that is how we are able to understand the things better. Here I feel that all are in a mud throwing business by trying to find out faults in others. It requires guts to say black as black & white as white. How can you simply deny the contribution of Mother Teresa and the missionaries who toiled hard in our land to uplift the downtrodden, poor, marginalised. How many Indian women will take up the responsibilities to pick up a dieing person on the foot path to give a descent life or bent down to clean the sores of a leper or give shelter to the orphan? You must go to Kolkata to see the living testimonies of Mother Teresa’s selfless sacrifice for our country. How could you deny that?
You could only remember the Padre who scolded you, but you could not remember those who contributed to your life and today you are what you are because of their contribution to your life? Can you deny that?
If you feel that India had so much money that they stole from us then why there are millions dieing at the road side, committing suicide due to poverty, getting into prostitution, crimes are growing in numbers etc.etc. ? Common Naren, if the Christian institutions were only into the process of proselytizing then by now 50% of Indians would have been Christian because many of us we studied in Christian institutions like you. Where as Christians are only 3% for last 2000 years from the time of St.Thomas, the disciple of Jesus who landed in India in the 1st century.
Instead of nurturing hatred towards other human beings, cultivate love and harmony and try to find out what made the Christians to tell others about Jesus Christ? Who is this Jesus? What did He teach? Ignorance is also evil.
Lord! lead us from darkness to light.
November 12th, 2008 at 4:01 am
Naren>>
Statement 1>>> they have used other subtle ways to try to condition my mind towards thinking Christianity is a better religion
2222 >>I had gone with some hindu friends to pray in the chapel, one of the older padres came out with a stick and chased us out shouting “Dirty bastard Hindus
Naren, arent you contradicting your own statements..
One point you are claiming ‘Priest tried to convet you’ and again you are saying he stopped you from entering Chapel.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
It sounds contradictory only if you assume that a school as big as SJIHS had only one Padre in the 6 years that I was there!! That Padre who scolded me - I did not see him again. He must have been a visiting padre.
He just had so much hate in his heart that I guess he couldnt help doing what he did. Most of the padres in my school were not like him. But we were scared of most of them.
Maybe that experience was the reason why I was not influenced by the subtle innuendos of the institution.
Also, I am who I am because of myself. The school played a part in my development by providing space and opportunity for education, I agree. I do not deny that.
But the point here is that they can make this contribution without any ulterior motive. Their main purpose to help, is not for the sake of service but to influence the minds of unsuspecting children about the glory of Christianity. Education is just a side effect.
There would be no problems in Orissa and K’taka if Christians had a policy of live and let live. It is this ulterior motive of conversion that is causing problems. Mother Teresa’s ultimate objective was Conversion not service. This is in her own words. Please read the article whose link I posted.
One needs to be objective in analyzing the problems faced by Indians and their root cause.
The very act of trying to convert indicates superiority of the religion of the person suggesting the conversion. This is an absolute insult to the Hindus and smacks of condescension and hatred. It is not the hinuds who hates other but others who hate hindus and hinduism!
November 12th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Naren>>Their main purpose to help, is not for the sake of service but to influence the minds of unsuspecting children about the glory of Christianity. Education is just a side effect>>
Yes, their main purpose is Service, as per the Inspirations from Jesus Christ’s teaching of Liberating society, ie, Liberation through education.
So,their purpose is to “Service” and what if they ask you to join them in percolating that Service to fellow Indians..Somehow, they are only asking you (in a subtle way), to carry forward that service mentality, in your future days. When you received a good education, you should also give it back to the society, and they have every right in asking you to join them. I interpret it in this way, though you may call it as conversion.
Now you may say, that, you as a hindu, can/will also do that. But then, Hindu Varna teachings doesnt permit you to teach to Dalits. Even now in most of the Brahmin run Hindu Vidhyalayas, Veda’s are only taught to Brahmins and rest of hindus are asked to study Ramayana only.
Thats one reason, India was just 3% literate before the arrival of Catholic Missionaries. In the same time line of 1000 years ago, Europe was under dark ages, and soon after Christianity, it got full literate, and by the time we started opening (not gurukul)educational systems, Man has already landed on Moon and west was in command of all 99% of scientific inventions.
Let me conclude with one question… Which teachings from Hindu scriptures you would quote to those who confined right-to-education only to Brahmins and denied the Dalit/Backwards the educational rights? (What Manusmriti asks is to pour molten lead on ear and cut toungues of those who ventures in to reading)
November 28th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Dear Mr. Kamat,
I have been reading some of your blogs with interest. I would like to send you some material which does not fall in the category of blogs. However, I am unable to locate your general e.mail id. Please send me the same so as to enable me to take appropriate further action in the matter.
Regards,
M.G. Desai
November 28th, 2008 at 8:04 am
@ M G Desai,
I have already given my email ID. It is deepakmangalore@yahoo.co.in
November 28th, 2008 at 8:06 am
@ Sapr33,
West progressed because it rejected Christianity. And it is time Indian Christians did it too. Hope we don’t need Galileo this time..
January 12th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
TO,
sapr333
October 11th, 2008 at 3:26 am
>>> I strongly believe KRISHNA is none other than CHRIST>>>
According to Bible, Christ lived a sinless life and according to Bagwat Gita, Krisha sinned many a times, esp stealing clothes of women..
Im sure you all would agree, God must be of absolute holiness..
———————————————————————-
o my lord krishna see how people critizing u becoz they are jealous of you becoz u r inconciably beatiful in appearance…
O my lord krishna please give your mercy them to think u all the time.
o.k lets come to point to the above post.
i think sapr333 requires lot of understanding becaue he is in the begining stage.
Mr.sapr333 u said krishna stelt all their womens clothes and it is a sin but from that point view i can say u r a just a beginer becasue all the material objects itself emanated from KRISHNA’S material energy. so how u can say that he did it wrong.
well.another example i would say here is that when krishna was 3 yrs old he eat stones and mud while plying with his friends and his friends frieghted and informed to his mother that krishna has eaten stones and mud,yes He ate stone and mud.but here when His step mother yasodha asks- did u eat the stones? then krishna replied no. but here as far as your point of view or material point of view He is wrong because he told lie to his mother.but as far as truth is concern He was right. You mak ask how? Here we go- The centre point is krishna who is A creator, maintainer, annihilator. so everything is originated from him. so He said no i did not eat stone but everything is inside me, which means he indirecrectly says all the planets are inside me. thats what He showed all the universes to his mother.
And again people say that krishna saw young girls while taking bath. but do you know that entire material body itself originated through his material energy. u say he was seeing girls bodies like breasts ,belly and ……..and…and (just understand what i m coming to say here i hope u can) but he can see each and every minute of the body what is going on inside and outside. do u think that He can not see anything if they are covered by clothes. even so where does cloths come from? through his energy.right?
e.g: Krishna can see u r hair each and every single second how it is growing,
Krishna can see how long u r hearing power going to be.
Krishna can see how long u r vision power going to be.
Krishna can see how long u r blood going to be young or fresh or active.
My krishna can see what time u r going to get sensual feeling which will be provided by him on right time.
My krsna can judge when girl will be in mensus time. that process actualy maintained by him if not they can not even exist.
My krsna who will digest your food if not you can not take food next time. so what will happen.u will die.
My krsna who provided water and sunshine for all living entity to sustain.if no such thing where u will get food.and when a women takes bath in the river do you think that water can not pervade all over her body. but the water is His power. power and posseses of power are non-different. Do you think that water should not be.
My krishna can see everything while a women begetting childen through….. ( i hope u can understand what i m going to say again.) do u think that he cann’t.
My krishna only who gave sensual feeling for men and women and for women he only awarded womb. do you think that he is wrong.
My krishna not responsible if some wicked person raped a girl. right? will u meant to say krishna who gave that sensual feeling so he can do that. do u think that this is a good proposal? nor krishna is responsible for this.
And another rascal who would say very often that krishna played with girls in the mitnight. Also they would say that he had sex with them.
i’ll ask one think that krishna who is complete in everything who is in the form of pleasure and the pleasure in the form of krishna and we just a particle and that sensual feeling itself from the same supreme who awareded in minute.but He has pleasure unlimited degree which is beyond human intellect. So y he has to connect with an ordinary women for such an insignificant proposal,e.g God’s body like Milk and your body like drainage water so would you want to compare both the things in terms of quality.Another example i can give that u r drinking milk which is pure and would you like to drink drainage water also which is impure.so u r an insignificant person and seeing the eligibility of an object before u take action,so how god to such thing. if this is so he is not a god rather he just a human.but he is not an ordinary human whatsoever. e.g. Sun who has unlimited degree of potency as for as material point of view so y sun has to go to another sun to get still more power since he itself has everything enough for this material world.
SO TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH FIRST BEFORE U START CRITIIZING. O.K.
January 12th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
TO,
sapr333
October 11th, 2008 at 3:26 am
>>> I strongly believe KRISHNA is none other than CHRIST>>>
According to Bible, Christ lived a sinless life and according to Bagwat Gita, Krisha sinned many a times, esp stealing clothes of women..
Im sure you all would agree, God must be of absolute holiness..
———————————————————————-
o my lord krishna see how people critizing u becoz they are jealous of you becoz u r inconciably beatiful in appearance…
O my lord krishna please give your mercy them to think u all the time.
o.k lets come to point to the above post.
i think sapr333 requires lot of understanding becaue he is in the begining stage.
Mr.sapr333 u said krishna stelt all their womens clothes and it is a sin but from that point view i can say u r a just a beginer becasue all the material objects itself emanated from KRISHNA’S material energy. so how u can say that he did it wrong.
well.another example i would say here is that when krishna was 3 yrs old he eat stones and mud while plying with his friends and his friends frieghted and informed to his mother that krishna has eaten stones and mud,yes He ate stone and mud.but here when His step mother yasodha asks- did u eat the stones? then krishna replied no. but here as far as your point of view or material point of view He is wrong because he told lie to his mother.but as far as truth is concern He was right. You mak ask how? Here we go- The centre point is krishna who is A creator, maintainer, annihilator. so everything is originated from him. so He said no i did not eat stone but everything is inside me, which means he indirecrectly says all the planets are inside me. thats what He showed all the universes to his mother.
And again people say that krishna saw young girls while taking bath. but do you know that entire material body itself originated through his material energy. u say he was seeing girls bodies like breasts ,belly and ……..and…and (just understand what i m coming to say here i hope u can) but he can see each and every minute of the body what is going on inside and outside. do u think that He can not see anything if they are covered by clothes. even so where does cloths come from? through his energy.right?
e.g: Krishna can see u r hair each and every single second how it is growing,
Krishna can see how long u r hearing power going to be.
Krishna can see how long u r vision power going to be.
Krishna can see how long u r blood going to be young or fresh or active.
My krishna can see what time u r going to get sensual feeling which will be provided by him on right time.
My krsna can judge when girl will be in mensus time. that process actualy maintained by him if not they can not even exist.
My krsna who will digest your food if not you can not take food next time. so what will happen.u will die.
My krsna who provided water and sunshine for all living entity to sustain.if no such thing where u will get food.and when a women takes bath in the river do you think that water can not pervade all over her body. but the water is His power. power and posseses of power are non-different. Do you think that water should not be.
My krishna can see everything while a women begetting childen through….. ( i hope u can understand what i m going to say again.) do u think that he cann’t.
My krishna only who gave sensual feeling for men and women and for women he only awarded womb. do you think that he is wrong.
My krishna not responsible if some wicked person raped a girl. right? will u meant to say krishna who gave that sensual feeling so he can do that. do u think that this is a good proposal? nor krishna is responsible for this.
And another rascal who would say very often that krishna played with girls in the mitnight. Also they would say that he had sex with them.
i’ll ask one think that krishna who is complete in everything who is in the form of pleasure and the pleasure in the form of krishna and we just a particle and that sensual feeling itself from the same supreme who awareded in minute.but He has pleasure unlimited degree which is beyond human intellect. So y he has to connect with an ordinary women for such an insignificant proposal,e.g God’s body like Milk and your body like drainage water so would you want to compare both the things in terms of quality.Another example i can give that u r drinking milk which is pure and would you like to drink drainage water also which is impure.so u r an insignificant person and seeing the eligibility of an object before u take action,so how god to such thing. if this is so he is not a god rather he just a human.but he is not an ordinary human whatsoever. e.g. Sun who has unlimited degree of potency as for as material point of view so y sun has to go to another sun to get still more power since he itself has everything enough for this material world.
SO TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH FIRST BEFORE U START CRITIIZING. O.K DEAR.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
I am wondering why he did not go to some men because they also “emanated’ from Him only. O my Lord! K Das, you are kuckoo. Anyway,it is true that Krishna could be a version of Christ because your Krishna worship is based on the theme of Judeochristian personal god. Very similar to jesus, the Vishnu and Krishna being the one and only True God. Only problem for me is that Krishna is mythical character. Jesus walked on earth.
January 12th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
May be he did live, as a very romantic sensual personality who rose to local king position from humble beginning, by killing his uncle. Probably Dravidian because the story itself is very matriarchal?. But his connection to Bharatha itself is the questionable part. From that follows the question how one could be writing up a treatise in the war zone. The story does not stick. Finally even this God’s words does n’t give us anything concrete. Ends up as a discourse, am I right?