Pope should apologise for Laxmanananda murder
Following are some instances in which the papacy admitted errors or apologised for actions of the Roman Catholic Church. If he can do so for trivial causes, why can’t he do so for the heinous murder of Swami Lakshmanananda in Kandhmal
1992: After 13 years of study by the Vatican, Pope John Paul II declared that the church was wrong to condemn astronomer Galileo for maintaining that the earth was not the centre of the universe. The scientist was formally rehabilitated and the pope said Galileo’s condemnation had resulted from “tragic mutual incomprehension”.
1992: Visiting a former centre of the slave trade in Senegal, John Paul begged for forgiveness for the Christians involved in the slave trade. “From this African sanctuary of black pain, we begged the pardon from above,” the pope said.
1995: John Paul issued a document saying that the Church was “truly sorry” for any discrimination or mistreatment of women.
1995: During a visit to the Czech Republic, John Paul asked forgiveness for violence by Catholics against Protestants during the 16th century Counterreformation. “Today I, the pope of the Church of Rome, in the name of all Catholics, ask forgiveness for the wrongs inflicted on non-Catholics during the turbulent history of these peoples.”
1998: In a document on the Holocaust, John Paul expressed remorse for the cowardice of some Christians during the Nazi persecution of Jews, regretting the silence of those who “were not strong enough to raise their voices in protest”.
1999: John Paul denounced the persecution of Jan Hus, a 15th-century religious reformer and precursor of Protestantism who was burned at the stake.
2000: On a solemn Day of Pardon during the Holy Year, John Paul asked forgiveness for the sins of Catholics through the ages, including wrongs inflicted on Jews, women and minorities. During the ceremony it was the future Benedict XVI, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who spoke of the Inquisition, confessing “sins committed in the service of the truth”.
2000: In a visit to Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem, John Paul said the Catholic Church is “deeply saddened by the hatred, acts of persecution and displays of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews by Christians at any time and in any place”.
2001: On a visit to Athens, John Paul issued a sweeping apology for wrongs committed by Roman Catholics against Orthodox Christians.
2001: Sending his official word over the internet for the first time, John Paul apologised for missionary abuses against indigenous peoples of the South Pacific.
2006: Pope Benedict XVI said on Sunday he was “deeply sorry” that Muslims worldwide took offence over a speech he gave in Germany on September 12 about Islam and holy war.
Leave a Reply
7358 views, 12 so far
today |
-----Email: greathindu@in.com
Fascist Trends in Indian Media
November 19th, 2008 at 3:16 am
And also compile Yesu-puranam…
November 19th, 2008 at 3:16 am
Singanandam,
>> ruben
November 19th, 2008 at 2:32 am
Wonderful idea ruben!!!! I’ll right away, this evening, will buy a statue and perform abhisheka tomorrow at our home. Somebody good at sanskrit can compile puja-paatam. Let the introductory sloka be…(I know sanskrit too)
Karunamayaaya bhagavanthaaya Esave namaha!
Bhaktha paarijaathaaya poorna roopaya they namaha!!
How is this ….?
I talk what my heart told thats all. I know things will change time will come then you will understand that i am not jocking here, but telling you the truth. That is already started in usa which will take some time to come true. (that will be jesus’s hinduisam hope india also part of jesus and indian culture is good hence lets join to gether you be with your faith just samll allignment thats all.)
November 19th, 2008 at 3:26 am
No… I am not making fun of you ruben.. I really felt that htis is needed to avoid religious rights. Dont you agree?
November 19th, 2008 at 3:43 am
The Homo scelestus’ Deceits, Depravity, Megalomania and Satanism
After having quoted Ben-Pandera that no other deceiver can hold a candle to him, we continue with the “three temptations” of his by Satan in the dessert: “To you (Jesus) I (Satan) will give their glory and all this authority (over the world)… if you (Jesus) … worship me (Satan)” (Lu 4:6-7). In his hype of “sermon on the mountain“, Ben-Pandera says: “Do not resist the evil…” (Mt 5:39). If he resisted Satan as Christians feign, he unmasks as liar and deceiver while transgressing the commandments of his own, he obliges each Christian to comply (see: Mt 28:18-18). If he did not withstand the evil (Satan), Christian sect is the result of Satan’s deal with Ben-Pandera and evidently addresses and worships Satan and his Anointed One (Greek: Christos) as “god”. So, Christianity is Satan’s depravity, infamy and criminality in the world on humankind.
If he resisted Satan as Christians feign, he unmasks as liar and deceiver by transgressing the commandments of his own (“do not resist the evil”), with which he obliges each Christian to comply (see: Mt 28:18-18). If he did not withstand the evil (Satan), Christian sect is the result of Satan’s deal with Ben-Pandera addressing and worshiping Satan and his Anointed One (Greek: Christos) as “god”. Philosophically spoken, this would mean that Christianity is the accomplishment of the depravity and criminality by an attempt at the (almost) perfect crime which is pretended as the moral reverse (e.g. “love”, “charities” etc.) in order to make it unassailable, i.e. perfect. In contrast with the belief of Christian prey, Satan does not introduce himself as Satan (see: 2Co 11:14) and it is to assume that he does not refrain from disguising as “Christ”, “son of god” or even as “god”… Ben-Pandera (thieves’ cant: Jesus “Christ” temptations in the desert which shall pretend incorruptibility of Ben-Pandera are a (day) dream in which his bad conscience chides him being Satan of his own idea…
Religiously spoken this means that Christianity is the sect in which Satan and his Anointed One (Greek: Christos) attained being addressed and worshiped as “god”, respectively, “god’s son”. Philosophically spoken, these “temptations” mean that Christianity is an organized crime wanting to make itself unassailable by faking a religion and a kind of Constantine Subreption, i.e. faking to be “gift” of a superior (“divine”) authority that the dominated cannot question. Religious terms like, for example, “god”, “heaven”, “hell”, “love” and “charity” are turned into weapons of foul mouths and their foul play to fake an authorization of dominating one’s fellow human beings corresponding the Christian predators’ lust for powers and delusion of grandeur. Hereby, Christian rogues want to trick, shift n’ grift that by foul play what they cannot get when keeping to fair play. This is the idea of Ben-Pandera and/or Christianity! Tricking and bagging by foul play what one cannot get by fair play is the general mind of criminals. In this regard, criminality of Christianity is no exception compared to any other Mafia. Religiously spoken: Christianity is the church of Satan. Philosophically spoken: Christianity is scelus quod maius cogitari non potest (the crime one cannot imagine more) that ever existed on planet earth, perfidious beyond bounds and abominable past description!
November 19th, 2008 at 4:01 am
singanadam,
“We can do Bible-paraayana in the morning. Forget about the OT-stupidity. We can take the preachings in the NT. Somebody can take initiative”
When you talk of unity you cant use of OT stupidity, True hindu wont abuse anything. God only given OT also how come it be stupidity. Kindly refrain taking & see it with truth.
November 19th, 2008 at 4:05 am
Portrait of the spitting Images of Satan: Jesus, Simon Peter and Shaul Paul
An already Ben-Pandera — who lies through his teeth that „god“ purportedly dotes on all the flops of nature — is such flop or miscarriage of nature. I.e., he promotes the selfishness of his own while faking the reverse, corresponding to his perfidy. Consequently, his outward appearance is one of the most secret in Christian sect. Already by his outward appearance Ben-Pandera turns out as Satan’s Anointed One (Greek: Christos). Christian criminals know that a god is of another appearance than he. According to early Christian Ephrem of Syria, the great pretender of Satan’s gender or this miscarriage of nature was about of three cubits tall, that are 53 inches that are about 4,5 feet (about are 135 cm), i.e. like a child of about ten or eleven years. Moreover, planet earth most criminal is deformed and ugly. His pretensions of faking as “god” are attempts at compensating those deficiencies. The most deficiency of his was a moral one due to his depravity and perfidy. Moreover, in contrast with that how he is pictured, this creep n’ crook or limping “god” (Ben-Pandera, aka: Jesus “Christ”) was bald and bandy-legged.
“But these (disbelievers are) like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed… (2Pe 2:12) “. This motto of Christian organized crime even constitutes a right of self-defense against the Christians and Christian sects. Simon Peter, who spoke those words, is a serial killer. Two of his murders even are eve reported in Christians’ fake of “god’s word” (see: Ac 5:1-10). Nobody can be forced to wait until the Christians start slaughtering him. There also is a right and obligation of preventing crimes. “Prosecutions and prosecutions against Christians” are the most joke and the most perfidious misleading of Christian priests n’ beasts for the selfishness of their own! On the contrary, there is no punishment to imagine those surreptitious dastards and furtive criminals and veiled enemies of god and humankind, i.e. Christians, do not deserve! One cannot exaggerate abomination of criminality of Christianity!
“But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and slaughter them in my presence.’” (Lu 19:27).
If heaven is a place where Christians are going to, I prefer to go to hell. So, giving the gist Caribbean chieftain Hatuey, the first Cuban hero, said shortly before becoming murdered by burning by Christian rogues with frocks and without frocks in the year 1512. Another demonstration that we can trust in Christian criminals and murder because they “love” their enemies…What do the Christian dastards n’ bastards say to that: They (the Christians) but not the victims of their (the Christians’) murders and mass-murder suffered martyrdom… There is no lie from which those dregs of humankind, i.e. Christians, ever would shrink…! Due to their debunking, the Christian dastards did not hand over Hatuey’s saying verbatim. Hatuey did not only realize Christian perfidy at the drop of a hat but also that Christians do not only address or pass Satan and his (Jesus) Christ off as “god” but also hell as “heaven” and heaven as “hell” what here is called semantic simulation. Hatuey realized that wherever there are Christians, there are Satan and hell whatever they are called, e.g. “god”, “god’s son” or “heaven” etc. What hell more is to imagine than being forced to spend an eternity with Christian creeps, crooks n’ surreptitious brutes which nobody can trust and who trust nobody… Hell fobbed off as “heaven” one can leave to the Christians and the homines stulti, i.e. the goof’s n’ fools falling for the Christian dastards’ spoofs… In that “heaven” Christian Athanasians will slay Christian Arians, Catholics the Protestants etc. Christian “heaven” necessarily is a hell since the evil needing a physician (see: Mt 9:12; Mk 2:17; Lu 5:31f) and no physician can help necessarily make themselves life as hell, due to their depravity, perfidy and criminality… Hatuey, correctly realized that honest ones have to chose the reverse of that what Christian dastards and furtive bastards select corresponding with their depravity, perfidy and criminality. Hand on heart, who honestly want to spend an eternity with Christian creeps n’ crooks, rogues with frocks, jumping jacks, damp squibs and miscarriages of mind and nature?
What an offer to spend an eternity with insidious, perfidious and infamous Christian criminals, murderers and mass-murderers! I am already tempted to become Christian…
November 19th, 2008 at 4:50 am
>> ruben
November 19th, 2008 at 4:01 am
singanadam,
“We can do Bible-paraayana in the morning. Forget about the OT-stupidity. We can take the preachings in the NT. Somebody can take initiative”
>> When you talk of unity you cant use of OT stupidity, True >>hindu wont abuse anything. God only given OT also how
>> come it be stupidity. Kindly refrain taking & see it with truth.
I stand corrected. Thats what I wanted too.
November 19th, 2008 at 5:43 am
Dear Hindu brethren and sisters,
Hope you understood what ruben and I tried to say here. This is inevitable thing that is going to happen. Whoever taught us good we have accepted them, be it Buddha or Jaina all of them have merged into Hinduism. Why can’t we accept Jesus? Afterall he preached the human kind about compassion and good deeds. If not in church or senagogue, lets worship him too according to the Indian culture. Definitely, He is not going to deny this. So, stop fighting and lets worship the compassionate God Jesus too. Dont think I am NOT a christian, I am a staunch Hindu, who is saying this. Please let me know who are ready to accept Him with pure heart.
November 19th, 2008 at 5:44 am
Small correction ….
Dont think I am a christian, I am a staunch Hindu, who is saying this
November 19th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Sri singanandam,
>> When you talk of unity you cant use of OT stupidity, True >>hindu wont abuse anything. God only given OT also how
>> come it be stupidity. Kindly refrain taking & see it with truth.
I stand corrected. Thats what I wanted too.
Thank you god bless you,(jesus+eswar)
November 19th, 2008 at 9:40 am
sapr 333
After having quoted Ben-Pandera that no other deceiver can hold a candle to him, we continue with the “three temptations” of his by Satan in the dessert: “To you (Jesus) I (Satan) will give their glory and all this authority (over the world)… if you (Jesus) … worship me (Satan)” (Lu 4:6-7). In his hype of “sermon on the mountain“, Ben-Pandera.
Hope you misunderstood .Now you mix with inidan upanishad and bible you will get answer.
As per indian upanishad You: god athman
I : ego self or one who separete from god with self ego.
When you abandon your self ego of yourself.. that is I represents that you differ from god you differ from universe you differ from all being hence you soround with lot of differences. Desert all your I then you can see god in you.
Now match both you will get answer You god I:mana(sathan)
November 19th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Singanandam and Ruben,
I agree with you. Whatever is the mode of praying everything is towards God. Correct? Thanks for such a serene thinking and opinion. Initially I thought Mr.Singi was kidding and laughed out aloud when in office, when he mentioned about paaraanayanam, abhishekam and yesu-puranam. When I saw he was serious, I had no option than to agree with him and Ruben as well. The introductory sloka too is good, I think.
Ruben, by the way, are you Easwar-Trich?
Thank you
November 19th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Vamsi/Easwar,
I didnt know that you will fall to my joke. I have said, whatever, jokingly and you people seem to be so innocent, you believed it to be true. I was just making fun out of this. I am a christian basically. Whatever you may have thought of is never going to be materialized because every hindu/christian is not as innocent as you people are. I am really sorry for playing with your beliefs. At the most I can pray to God for this to happen. My sincere apologies for my mistake of playing with your faiths. I hope, you people will forgive me.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Hope you people remember Beagle boys and Beagle maa from ‘Duck Tales’.
Beagle Maa: Oh! How should we make easy money? I dont want to be burdened too much in making money!
Beagle boy1: Dont worry maa! We can distribute fake hindu purana stories, made by ourselves and distribute among people. We get lots of money from christian missionaries.
Beagle boy2: If that doesnot work, lets host a anti-hindu-anti (I am confused maa) site so that google can give ads through which we can make money!
Beagle boy3: Dont worry maa! When both Beagle boy1&2 make money we’ll loot them! Heh heh!!
Beagle maa: Oooh my boys! How intelligent have turned up. I am proud of you. And keep in mind, this is the time to loot India, when people are quarelling with each other over religion. Thats never ending and we’ll have ample riches to spend for the rest of our lives in pomp and splendour. And this is the easiest way.
November 19th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
This is written by Konrad (Not Rudyard) kipling…and that is me.
Mowgli returns to the jungle once again….
Bhaaloo: Hi mowgli! Welcome back to the peaceful jungle!
Bhageera: Bhaaloo! Have you gone mad? He is coming here after he spent some part of his life in the midst of humans(christians and hindus). He would be, by now, filled with hatred, jealousy and must be having a murderous mind. We’ll be ruined if we allow him to stay with us. Send him away or if he doesn’t go we’ll make him go. Ok?
Bhaaloo: Yeah Bhageera! You are true Infinite%. We’ll send him off.
Pappu: Mowgli! We dont want you, a human, among us. Go away. You people quarrel with hatred developed over religious matter. Now you want to have this hate campaign among the jungle folk too! Go away!
Bhaaloo: Yeah mowgli! You cannot enjoy the privilege of being with the animalfolk once you have tasted what its like to be Hindu/christian. Shoo! Shoo! Go away!
Three of them, including Kaavaa, push him out of the forest.
The End!
November 20th, 2008 at 12:20 am
Singinaadam
November 19th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Vamsi/Easwar,
I didnt know that you will fall to my joke. I have said, whatever, jokingly and you people seem to be so innocent, you believed it to be true. I was just making fun out of this. I am a christian basically. Whatever you may have thought of is never going to be materialized because every hindu/christian is not as innocent as you people are. I am really sorry for
You are great many thanks & god bless you jesus never fail. Jai sitaram
November 20th, 2008 at 12:22 am
Beagle Inc
November 19th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Hope you people remember Beagle boys and Beagle maa from ‘Duck Tales’.
Beagle Maa: Oh! How should we make easy money? I dont want to be burdened too much in making money!
Beagle boy1: Dont worry maa! We can distribute fake hindu purana stories, made by ourselves and distribute among people. We get lots of money from christian missionaries.
Beagle boy2: If that doesnot work, lets host a anti-hindu-anti (I am confused maa) site so that google can give ads through which we can make money!
Beagle boy3: Dont worry maa! When both Beagle boy1&2 make money we’ll loot them! Heh heh!!
Beagle maa: Oooh my boys! How intelligent have turned up. I am proud of you. And keep in mind, this is the time to loot India, when people are quarelling with each other over religion. Thats never ending and we’ll have ample riches to spend for the rest of our lives in pomp and splendour. And this is the easiest way.
WELL INTERPRETED BEAGLE.
HOW DID U COME TO KNOW?
I THOUGHT I NEVER WOULD GET CAUGHT..
OK…I ACCEPT….
TO SAY IT PLAINLY..
WHEN CHRISTAIANS AND HINDUS FIGHT…
I SHALL GIVE FUEL…
LET THEM FIGHT…
I AM LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK.
EVERY OPINION, EVERY CLICK COUNTS..
JAI GOOGLE ADSENSE ..
YOU MADE ME WHAT I AM TODAY !!!
November 20th, 2008 at 2:22 am
I hope the folks who were so much obsessed with RAPE had noticed the U-Turn of the Orissa nun as well as the arrest of 2 priests and a nun in Kerala for raping and murdering a 21 year old nun. The Orissa nun yesterday did a U turn and told the court that she wasn’t gang raped, but raped by one man, after which she became semi conscious. Even then she came to know that it was a “Hindu” man who rescued her after this man “gang” raped her. What a blatant lie!
November 20th, 2008 at 2:37 am
This exposure has brought to light the true charecter of many who claim to be our leaders . But in reality they just want to exploit peoples’ emotions for their personal gain.
It is difficult to believe any one when they vouch to be our saviors.
time and again they say that those who write against them are missionaries which show their inability to convince secular hindus who do not believe in violence.
I am not saying this only in our faith. The exposure by CBI about sr.abhaya rape case and involvement of clergy in the same should open the eyes of christians . When lust becomes primary to service of god, the results would be this.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:40 am
Abraham
November 20th, 2008 at 2:22 am
I hope the folks who were so much obsessed with RAPE had noticed the U-Turn of the Orissa nun as well as the arrest of 2 priests and a nun in Kerala for raping and murdering a 21 year old nun. The Orissa nun yesterday did a U turn and told the court that she wasn’t gang raped, but raped by one man, after which she became semi conscious. Even then she came to know that it was a “Hindu” man who rescued her after this man “gang” raped her. What a blatant lie!.
Let the unity start from here between christian & hindu and we let us all teach bloody/ fanatic missionary/hindu organaisation. They are all for their greed, all u turn will come not only from nun also from hindu organaisation too.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:46 am
Yesterday the hypocrisy of the Xian fundamentalists came into open when the Orissa nun denied that she was gang raped by VHP men. She reduced the count to a mere one now since there was no option to substantiate her false claim. I guess the Xian foul mouths will shut up for now . The same day two padres and a nun was arrested in Kerala in connection with a 16 year old case when the body of a 21 year old nun was found in a well inside the seminary where she was staying. She was pregnant when she died, is it another immaculate conception? It’s a shame now to keep repeating the rape drama. First bring your own house to order, then you think about the poor and needy…
November 20th, 2008 at 2:52 am
Abraham
November 20th, 2008 at 2:22 am
I hope the folks who were so much obsessed with RAPE had noticed the U-Turn of the Orissa nun as well as the arrest of 2 priests and a nun in Kerala for raping and murdering a 21 year old nun
Dont spread wrong information.
She did not take U Turn as u claim.
She wants the identification anywhere outside orissa which the orissa court has ruled out.
If a hindu man has rescued her that shows all are not duplicate warriors as you are who is taking shelter of “abrahim” to spread hatred. Hindus are the best people if these bhajrangis are eliminated.
One such warrior is exposed just above this post.
November 20th, 2008 at 5:51 am
I think, TheHindu paper sucks. I had to read this news in TOI epaper.
November 20th, 2008 at 6:03 am
What happened to the nun-parade? Its quite confusing now…
November 20th, 2008 at 7:38 am
Is any one has answers about goodle adsense?.
what exactly is that ?
Why one would laugh on way to the bank?
November 20th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Paresh,
You are correct. I have commented only about some sites which are using this hate campaign for making money. I should say this site is not one among them. It was said in generic sense and just to make fun of people that they are forgetting the sense of “one country”. And the writings afterwards are not mine.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:05 am
This is what happens when lust overpowers the love of god.
November 20th, 2008 at 8:10 am
Rahul Mahajan says Big Boss has helped him clean his tarnished image. He defended his ‘flirtatious’ behaviour on the show, “My “”Krishna”" image went a bit too far on the show. Whatever I did on the show was for fun.”
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Mumbai/Im_not_marrying_Monica_Bedi_says_Rahul_Mahajan/articleshow/3734370.cms
RAHUL MAHAJAN WISH TO BE CLEANER THAN LORD KRISHNA.. HE SAYS HE WILL NOT BE LIKE KRISHNA ANY MORE.. WHAT A PITY LEARNING AND INSPIRATION FROM GOD’S
November 20th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Abhaya case: 2 priests, nun held
Ernakulam Chief Judicial Magistrate remands them in CBI custody
Kochi: Ernakulam Chief Judicial Magistrate P.D. Soman on Wednesday remanded two Catholic priests and a nun who were arrested in the Sr. Abhaya murder case in the custody of the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) till December 2.
According to a report filed by the CBI before the court, Fr. Thomas Kottur, Fr. Jose Puthurukkayil and Sr. Stephy are accused number 1, 2, and 3 respectively in the case.
read here.
http://www.hindu.com/2008/11/20/stories/2008112050270100.htm
November 20th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Bharath>>Ernakulam Chief Judicial Magistrate remands them in CBI custody >>
If convicted, they deserve Jail sentence(I’m against Capital Punishment),and and subsequent Gods punishment, as Jesus Christ’s teaching is well clear about that..
But, What hindu teaching you would refer to those who resort to raping nuns,Saibaba murder, torching alive, skinning alive,Sankaracharya’s Untouhablity,demolishing mosques etc ?
November 20th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Emmarcee>> But the path to violence will never help us strengthen hinduism
Vamsi responds>>>I agree with you 100%. It applies not only for Hinduism, but for other religions too.
I’m talking here about Violence by gods. One poster here has said “Rahul Mahajan (BJP)will no more do his Krisha leela acts.. He says, he want to discard his Krishna image!!”.. Hope you got my point..
PS: Muslims also face this question,when it comes to lifestyle of Mohammed. But they tackle in a different way,in debates even with Metaphysics! Out here, most of the hindus are confused..Some get hurt, some get tensed up calling it as abuse..and some brush it under carpet. Some refer Veda some Gita..
November 20th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Easwar-TCH to EMMARCEE>>As per india creation years is there.. >>approx 50 lacs years.. >>>.. that is 250crore year completed.
I agree with you that none of the Creation theories were finely clear on timeline. But what we learn from Creationism is,the starting morals of a religion an initial idea about God.
The basis point is, in as per Christian view, the creation has a starting point (Finite),with God’s punishment for sinners and the purpose of Creation and Paradise lost(eden garden)….., where as Hinduism is bit confused with too many a creationism,but overall confrims the view that Creationism was IN-FINITE and backs it by Maya.
If you set a starting point for creation, then the Karma concept become a flop, as I mentioned in one of my previous posts, about the first acquisition of Karma. Also, In-finite/Maya disproves the big-bang theory of creationism. Added to that, practically Infinite time or space does not exist (You may google Hilbert hotel paradox)
Now, keeping in mind these above advance clues, please present me which mythology of Hindu creationism you are going to take here, for the debate.
PS: I was bit busy last few days.. and Im searching back the point where we left the debate.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Sapr,
I think we are humans and our ‘humanity’(human-ity) should be enough to condemn those evil things. And thats what’ll make us different from the animals. We need not refer to textbooks or moral sciences to do that. We hindus can condemn those with our pure heart. When the humane qualities are innate, you dont need references to excoriate crimes which happen around you. Remember, the raped nun said that she was saved by a hindu? Who told that Hindu brother to help her? Has he referred to Bible or Gita to help that poor woman?
So, even if you had the moral teachings for reference, say, how come the church fathers did something against the teachings? Did they not read the teachings? If they did, what happened to their conscience while perpetrating against a simple nun? … Implying, other than condemning those perpetrators what else can your references do? Will they bring back the life of the poor sister? Or will they bring back the chastity of our Orissa sister? For this mere condemnations (without reaching out OUR helping hand to those poor and other downtrodden in any other way…well..I praise Mother Teresa and some christian/ramakrishna missionaries in this regard) do you need references?
November 20th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Vamsi To Emmarcee>>Even BharathMohan said that he tried to be reasonable with his debate, but because people were not able to understand he had to resort. >>. Our conscience warns us always if something is going wrong. Doesn’t it?>>>
Not really. Godse’s consciene is very much clear(refering his last days statements), until the shutter of gallows opened, that, he is right in assasinating Gandhiji.. Hitler’s conscience is very much clear, that his genocide is only for the development of his country and race. Even Bin-Laden..
So one definitely needs a source for morals from a higher platform, and thats why i say, morals are rooted in God.
Now though Bharathmohan’s conscience pricked, his source of moral standard(Dharma-Arjuna-Karna) would have justified him to resort to ugly-tricks and retaliation.
November 20th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Sapr >> he want to discard his Krishna image!!”.. Hope you got my point..
Why, in my childhood days, we (me and my brothers) used to jokingly say to my father that we are going to follow Krishna’s suit. My father used to laugh at us and used to say, when you become someone like Krsna you can do whatever. Then we are growing up we were able to know the difference b/n Krsna and us. We cannot be ASKHALITHA BRAHMACHARIs. We are not going to be someone whose life is like a water drop on a lotus leaf . This was how Krnsa lead his life. Thats why I told you people to know the meaning fo the above mentioned word. After you become one like Him, you dont crave for that or anything for that matter. You go ahead, accomplish you duty/what you are destined for and leave this body. Thats it. And I related more than twice, the story of why he had those many no of wives. Sigh! That seems to never sink into your mind. What can I do?
Then say, How about Jesus? He did not marry. As a follower of Him why dont you (you alone Sapr) renounce marriage and join some missionary?
November 20th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Vamsi>>We need not refer to textbooks or moral sciences to do that. We hindus can condemn those with our pure heart>>
How about this.. For over 2000 years, definitely good lot of Hindus were there in ancient India.. Inspite of that, Sati/Devdasi/Polygamy/Untouchablity were officially practised all across Hindustan. Why?
Its all banned, based on the Western Legal system,which is widely set on Ten Commandments and Jesus Christ’s teaching.
At the moment,Im not pitting Christ against Hinduism.. All Im saying is, left to themselves, things will go from bad to worse, and hence there should a source for higher Moral Standards for man from a higher level man(god).. It could be Gita,Upanishad, BIble or Koran.. or any.. All we need to do is, evaluate and choose the authenic true moral standards.. Thats one reason I always insist my friends to study all religious scriptures, importantly debates on aetheism. Most of your/easwrs argument, takes you all a nose dive to aetheist views (unknowingly thou).
The next question comes in any one’s mind is, Can we implement Arujuna’s killing for maintaining Dharma.. E.U has gone further in abolishing Capital Punishment.. Do we(Humans) have the right to take the life of man,who was created by God? They think in that way..
November 20th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Vamsi>> when you become someone like Krsna you can do whatever>>
Thats a good point. But then, which part of Krishna’s life history and teaching you will follow or get inspired with?
Or Why I need his life story,when I cant follow his acts?
Coming to the point of being single like Christ, jesus christ clearly advocated sanctity marriage and was against divorce.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
>> Hitler’s conscience is very much clear, that his genocide
Do you think Christ’s teachings would have changed him?
>> Now though Bharathmohan’s conscience pricked, his source of moral standard(Dharma-Arjuna-Karna) would have justified him to resort to ugly-tricks and retaliation.
So, talking about the sin/retaliation etc, lets look at it from the OT story which says that God had destroyed the whole world (Noah’s story). Why did he do that? He could have changed the hearts of the sinners with His absolute Holiness and power just like He made the heart of pharoah hard in the Moses episode to show His miracles. Then why did he destroy the world?
Did He commit a mistake according to Jesus’s teachings? If so, how come He became God? If not, then with reference to what teachings are you going to support Him? (Here I am not taking any differentiation between Jesus and God). If it was because the Humans were sinners that He destroyed it, then what did the animals and plants do? Did they sin against Him? Dont they have life? Are they not His own Creation? Then….? Also, He talks to Abraham and gets advice on whether to destroy the whole city or to refrain from it because there were atleast 50..49..48..47……1 good person there. How would do defend this? God seeking advice of Man whom He has created? Then how come He is of Absolute Holiness if He is seeking an advice about what is Good/ Morale from a mere Human?
Dont assume that I copied this information from some hate-site. I recently have started reading Bible. And I can understand why these might have been there/happened.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Vamsi,
I am not saying Indians/Hindus lack sheer morals.. Definitely not. They do have some kind of good teachings, which helps them to set some level of moral standards, when compared to atheists. Some set up the moral standards refering the society they live in. I would say, the 2000 year old Thiruvalluvar’s thirukkural poems commands better moral standards than Mahabaratha. The Tamil version of Kambaramayan commands the better moral standards than its Sanskrit source book. So there is good chance, all these things put togethe must have set some standards..
But Absolute/Universal moral standards are rooted and sourced from God, who is believed to be of absolute holiness,righteousness and Justics with all loving nature.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Myself>> Hitler’s conscience is very much clear, that his genocide
Vamsi responds>>>Do you think Christ’s teachings would have changed him?
If he has followed the teachings of Jesus Christ, Hitler wouldnt have did that act.
As said earlier, God has created humans with freewill, free to distance away from God, and that freewill some time even makes those who preach bible(Priests) to abuse children etc etc or a Christian like Hitler to become a Nationalist Racist.
>>lets look at it from the OT story which says that God had destroyed the whole world (Noah’s story). Why did he do that? He could have changed the hearts of the sinners with His absolute Holiness and power >>
God has given freewill to man, and he can sin and drift away from God. The first passage, or Adam & Eve talks about the Sin of his creation,by which God punishes them and send them out of Eden Garden. Here,Its the onus of the man to change his heart ,repend for the sins, seek forgiveness and lead a sinless life inorder reach back to God.
Now coming bck to OT Noah/Abraham, there are many many incidences where God punished the sinners. He punished the entire village by Fire, etc etc. The entire theme of OT is, GOd punishes the sinners, and Forgive those who seek fogiveness with rependence.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I would add few points.. God being the mark of Absolute Justice, he should punish those who do wrong also. Thats the DHARMA. So most of those who never sought his forgiveness in O.T are punished. Even Moses was punished.
And how about God’s Absolute Love.. Here comes the forgiveness.. He who accepts the mistake, repends and seek and cry shout out to Lords, he forgives them.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Vamsi>>>How would do defend this? God seeking advice of Man whom He has created?>>
You went too literally I guess. One of the unique thing of Jeudo-Christian tradition (Not Islam) is, that, man can have loving relationship and commune with God. We can converse with god .. It was there explained from OT where God conversed with humans by voice, and came down to earth as Flesh, and even now he communes with humans through holy spirit.
Possibly, it could be a discussion between GOd and Abraham, definitely not to be taken in a literal way.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
>> Most of your/easwrs argument, takes you all a nose dive to aetheist views
Did Advaitha philosophy explained by Easwar sounded to you like Atheist view? Well, I am not going to talk about Advaitha when Easwar is here. He is the right person on this site to talk about those, as I have to say, my knowledge is very little on this.
>> which part of Krishna’s life history and teaching you will follow or get inspired with
. Will ladies those many ever will fall in love with you or me 
? Just kidding…
Well… The Gita itself is a way to salvation…not just by reading but by understanding and putting it to practise(the essence of it, the philosophy). His life of being un-attached to this materialistic world is a great teaching(though this may sound absolute nonsense to you). I am not going to marry those many girls though
>> Its all banned, based on the Western Legal system
Arya! Though the Britishers have seen these heinous crimes, they didnot want to involve themselves in banning them especially Sati as they saw that that is going to aggravate the Brahmin anger. It was at the repeated pleas from people/thinkers/social-reformers like RajaRamMohan roy or saraswathi that they have made laws to abolish those dirty practises. May be they got inspired also by the christian teachings. Thanks to William Bentinck for his gutsy nature in materailizing this law. There were many sects of Hindus which have criticized this practice severly like the vaishnavas, Shaktheyaas.
About polygamy, in the early days this was practised to improve the race and none other than this was the cause. And thats why there were quotes saying not to do Bhroona Hatya (interpreted in two ways). Later on in the medieval periods it was looked upon as a symbol of virility. If we can understand why the old customs (forgetting the stupid ones), it would be beneficial to all of us. You might have observed that now a days, most of the Hindus are content with two or even one child. How come this chnage of mentality when the original scriptures are still preaching Pinda hatya to be the most heinous crime?
>> Coming to the point of being single like Christ, jesus christ clearly advocated sanctity marriage and was against divorce.
Then why are there lots of divorces in western countries? Why Hindus hesitate a lot and parents from both sides and family members, acquaitances unknown, unknowns too try to dissuade a couple who are trying to part in India?
In all these questions themselves we should be able to find an answer to that question. Beyond that I cannot say anything. True Hinduism is about all these… not only about philosophy. But none of us, true Hindus, can accept the medieval Indian behaviour. Thats true.
November 20th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
>> lead a sinless life inorder reach back to God.
Can you please elaborate it further if you have time? And from tomorrow please discuss only with Easwar. I’ll refrain myself from posting my questions/doubts from tomorrow on. You please continue with your (yourself/Easwar) debate.
>>You went too literally I guess.
I can understand why this is all. Not that I interpreted it as it is in the literal sense. Being an advocate of ‘careful’ reading/study how can I take it literally?
Thanks for keeping yourself awake upto this late in the night. My usual ’study’ completes at this time. Afterall I too am a human. Right?
Good night!
November 20th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
>>>Then why are there lots of divorces in western countries?
There is an international top seller book which I have read recently authored by an Indian-American Dinesh D’souza, ‘Whats so Great About Christianity & Whats so great about America..
There he explains,that the atheism has got rooted much in the cosmopoliton set up of Amercia. Thats one reason the Catholic Church still strongly opposes abortion, though in deaf ears. The teachings should reach all of them and many Americans abandon Christ’s teaching for taking a convenient justification of their immoral acts. But, you may still see,many claiming proud of their Catholic schooling in America (even in presidential debates), because of these values are still instilled, inspite of Americanization of Kids.
Many a times Church lobbies with the law makers, to instill the moral standards in the law (for eg, Abortion). BUt if the legislators themselves share an aetheist view, then it beocomes difficult.
Its an interesting book you could read, if you have time.. I think limited view pages are available in Google books.
November 20th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Hey Vamsi, You have a very nice soul. I just hope that God open your eyes so you can see there is no path out of this misery of life other than God’s grace itself. Every creature and the universe tells us that everything is “created” with laws and “vision” and purpose.
Think deep into it and understand that as per Vedic Dharma, the final truth is a Nirguna Parabharma, which actually Budha thought of as not worthy enough to aspire for. Even as per the Advaita the “known supreme God” is created as a Maya. Why do you want to depend on another Maya just like ourselves? To the supreme Being, we may be a “Maya” because we are not permanent. But to us humans , nothing is Maya and the Supreme God definitely is not Nirguna.
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:34 am
Sapr
“I am not saying Indians/Hindus lack sheer morals.. Definitely not. They do have some kind of good teachings”
Some kind of good teaching what is it. What is good moral that other religion has but indian donot.
kindly compare with india/other nations/religion please. asper you
November 22nd, 2008 at 1:48 am
emmarcee/vamsi
“known supreme God” is created as a Maya. Why do you want to depend on another Maya just like ourselves? To the supreme Being, we may be a “Maya” because we are not permanent. But to us humans , nothing is Maya and the Supreme God definitely is not Nirguna.
I would kindly like to address that YOur definition of god is so bad.. hope its shameful.. Please dont difine the merciful god to merciless state.
Please refrain from thinkin god as a separate entity , how could it be a separate.
Please answer to this question As per you god is not nirguna brahm.. You mean to confine god is gunee(who has guna) that you want to confine his status he she- good bad-chiristian indu muslim. Guna reprsents (kama/krotha/matha/macharya) you mean to say he is confine to this eliments or nirguna..
Please answer it very clearly your synopsys must understandable to all. No sort of hanky- panky write your thought or your region thought onthis no quote is required. if you want healthy debate do it please.
Thank You.
November 22nd, 2008 at 2:10 am
Sapr,
Now coming bck to OT Noah/Abraham, there are many many incidences where God punished the sinners. He punished the entire village by Fire, etc etc. The entire theme of OT is, GOd punishes the sinners, and Forgive those who seek fogiveness with rependence.
god punishes sinner of cristian only or all religion. god forgive those of who seek forgiveness with Repentance is it only to cristian Or to all religion.
You mean to say he confine with guna.. does he gunee. who has also separate mind like you and me. who also suffer when he feels bad. who also enjoy when he joys. does he mind. Please answer and clear my doubt on this..
December 29th, 2008 at 6:33 am
Hi Kamath,
You expect pope to apologise because he has done it on several occasions, I appreciate his will and courage to accecpt the misdeeds done by his perdecessors.
But,
How many of our Swamijis or communities ( including your saraswath) have guts to go to Dalits and say sorry for keeping them at bay for thousands of years??????