Pope should apologise for Laxmanananda murder
Following are some instances in which the papacy admitted errors or apologised for actions of the Roman Catholic Church. If he can do so for trivial causes, why can’t he do so for the heinous murder of Swami Lakshmanananda in Kandhmal
1992: After 13 years of study by the Vatican, Pope John Paul II declared that the church was wrong to condemn astronomer Galileo for maintaining that the earth was not the centre of the universe. The scientist was formally rehabilitated and the pope said Galileo’s condemnation had resulted from “tragic mutual incomprehension”.
1992: Visiting a former centre of the slave trade in Senegal, John Paul begged for forgiveness for the Christians involved in the slave trade. “From this African sanctuary of black pain, we begged the pardon from above,” the pope said.
1995: John Paul issued a document saying that the Church was “truly sorry” for any discrimination or mistreatment of women.
1995: During a visit to the Czech Republic, John Paul asked forgiveness for violence by Catholics against Protestants during the 16th century Counterreformation. “Today I, the pope of the Church of Rome, in the name of all Catholics, ask forgiveness for the wrongs inflicted on non-Catholics during the turbulent history of these peoples.”
1998: In a document on the Holocaust, John Paul expressed remorse for the cowardice of some Christians during the Nazi persecution of Jews, regretting the silence of those who “were not strong enough to raise their voices in protest”.
1999: John Paul denounced the persecution of Jan Hus, a 15th-century religious reformer and precursor of Protestantism who was burned at the stake.
2000: On a solemn Day of Pardon during the Holy Year, John Paul asked forgiveness for the sins of Catholics through the ages, including wrongs inflicted on Jews, women and minorities. During the ceremony it was the future Benedict XVI, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who spoke of the Inquisition, confessing “sins committed in the service of the truth”.
2000: In a visit to Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem, John Paul said the Catholic Church is “deeply saddened by the hatred, acts of persecution and displays of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews by Christians at any time and in any place”.
2001: On a visit to Athens, John Paul issued a sweeping apology for wrongs committed by Roman Catholics against Orthodox Christians.
2001: Sending his official word over the internet for the first time, John Paul apologised for missionary abuses against indigenous peoples of the South Pacific.
2006: Pope Benedict XVI said on Sunday he was “deeply sorry” that Muslims worldwide took offence over a speech he gave in Germany on September 12 about Islam and holy war.
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November 4th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Easwar-TCH>>try to bridge your difference.. >>
Thats why i was posing the basic questions on Karma-Rebirth-Creation- Purpose of life so that I can relate Hinduism to Christianity interms of Forgiveness of Sins-Ressurection- Nature of God – Heaven.. But not a single question on Karma was answered yet!!
>>>bhudha accept karma… but to reach nirvana…desire is couse of distruction … thats wat he said.
I can equate it saying, world desire is the cause of Sin..Where as in Karma, is some in affluent/Rich/High social status Brahmin he is believed to be gifted because of the good deeds of earlier birth. Here comes the contradiction.
>>I have explain many time about karma theory >>
If karma is an accumulated punishment for the earlier life, then,lets take the first birth,which would definitely be a sinless/born without any karma. Then why/where that living accumulates Karma… Matter of fact, it should live a clean life, cos there was no previous life and no back track of past karma? Dont you think its a logical fallacy?
>>we will take jesus also unite with them later any problem with you.. if we take jesus>>
Thats exactly what Im also looking forward.. But not on Cultural/Ritual basis.. But on the philosophical/Moral/Doctrinal basis..
November 4th, 2008 at 8:09 am
“If karma is an accumulated punishment for the earlier life, then,lets take the first birth,which would definitely be a sinless/born without any karma. Then why/where that living accumulates Karma… Matter of fact, it should live a clean life, cos there was no previous”
First you try to understand our science – where is first birth– there is no first birth as per our science- we are poornam we are athee existence — for the athman no coming going time year kalam… this is becouse of our ignorance we feel we have suround with lot of problem.. example there is a crowd there during night hours you are also there, and sudden current cut , you cant see anything there but still you can realaize that you are there but others you have to see or touch . or taste or sound only can still identify so with help of sense you have to identity other thing. So all other world we are having relation with our senses only. When you start control of our sense existense is only self which holy sprit., till you approach with your sense you and i will have difference.. problem..time.. coming..going..up…We are the holy sprite.. as its mention in bible gardern and tree.. without tree how gardern..dont be part of it think then you will have difference.
November 4th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
<<>>
You wrote whole bible, methew, jew etc etc here…….what i understand from ur post that u dont believe in karma law.
I asked u few simple question…….pls give simple reply and pls use simple words, my english is not good, many words i cant understand from ur post, it will be helpful if u will use simple words.
1. Who is God ? His apperance
2. Why we came on this earth according to christen and muslim philosphy Adam and Hava didn,t obey God order and took fruit from garden and in punishment they got birth on earth. Means Adam and Hawa were with God in heaven , they know God and his apperance too , but still christen dont know who is God, according to ur belief God is seprate entity from human being, eath, sun etc, when he is seprate then he should have some appreance too , second why u and me came on earth , we didnt took any fruit from God garden, then for what we got punishment?
3. Daily thousand child taking birth on earth , is god have factory in heaven, why this countinous production? from where we are coming ? from where he is bringing raw material (souls)?
4. Few are poor , few are handicapt, few are blind, few too much sick , some time few got miserable death even in childhood, why this unjustics by god with all these peoples?
just few querry, pls first reply this , then i will ask few other…….
THANKS IN ADVANCE………….
November 4th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
To <<>
You wrote whole bible, methew, jew etc etc here…….what i understand from ur post that u dont believe in karma law.
I asked u few simple question…….pls give simple reply and pls use simple words, my english is not good, many words i cant understand from ur post, it will be helpful if u will use simple words.
1. Who is God ? His apperance
2. Why we came on this earth according to christen and muslim philosphy Adam and Hava didn,t obey God order and took fruit from garden and in punishment they got birth on earth. Means Adam and Hawa were with God in heaven , they know God and his apperance too , but still christen dont know who is God, according to ur belief God is seprate entity from human being, eath, sun etc, when he is seprate then he should have some appreance too , second why u and me came on earth , we didnt took any fruit from God garden, then for what we got punishment?
3. Daily thousand child taking birth on earth , is god have factory in heaven, why this countinous production? from where we are coming ? from where he is bringing raw material (souls)?
4. Few are poor , few are handicapt, few are blind, few too much sick , some time few got miserable death even in childhood, why this unjustics by god with all these peoples?
just few querry, pls first reply this , then i will ask few other…….
THANKS IN ADVANCE………….
November 4th, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Priesthood as vocation – and the mental health professional
Few excerpts.
The Christian priesthood is a vocation (from the Latin for “to call”), quite literally, a calling. The Christian god Jehovah, or more usually his “son” Jesus, speaks to, calls a man (or woman) to His service. To enter His service without this divine call to it is gross hypocrisy and is treating His service as a profane job rather than as a sacred mission.
The sexual abuse of nuns by priests is rampant “especially in Africa and other parts of the developing world” and is well within the knowledge of the Vatican.
Christian priests in India are not immune to this-worldly Christian love. The “church in Kerala is rocked by sex scandals” and 63 Kerala priests stand accused of “murder, attempt to murder, rape, molestation, assault, abduction, theft, break-in, cheating…almost every offence under the Indian Penal Code – and of course, the Ten Commandments”. Tamil Nadu priests are trying to catch up. Notorious proselytiser Graham Staines was accused of sex-abuse and, as it happens, “Christian nuns claim false rape in India to defame Hinduism”
If the Christian god has been calling sex-abusers and psychopaths to His priesthood, evidently He is not infallible. And clearly the Church lacks faith in its own professional theology that it calls in mental health professionals to choose for it. Humans can veto “God”.
Just one more reason to confirm to pagans that the Church continues to use “God” as a cover for its nefarious missionary-colonial enterprise.
read more here.
http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=221
November 4th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Satinder>>>Who is God ? His apperance>
God is believed to be have the nature of Absolute Holiness,Ablsolute Rightheousness,Justice,Love All Powerful and Creator of all the things which we could see,perceive and comprehend and beyond. Please note there are lots of debates against existence of God, but none of them could prove that God doenst exist.
>>>Why we came on this earth according to christen and muslim philosphy Adam? Whats his shape >>
First of all, Islam contradicts Christianity in ‘God Coming Down”.
The entire Old Testament talks about their waiting for God coming to earth and reveal himself as a King of them. However, I will give you a logical response. If God is ALL loving,and has love for his creation, then for sure he should commune with us,and even he should reveal to us. In the OT & ADAM’s days, God revealed through them with “Word”..OT says this, In the beginning it was WORD, and Word Became Flesh(Jesus Christ), and even on day to day basis God communes with us, through Holy Spirit. In Christianity, God always communes with us.,
>>Daily thousand child taking birth on earth , is god have factory in heaven, why this countinous production? >>
This world is an ‘Intelligent Design’ of God and it evolves andmoves on with nature and freewill. What it would be according to your idea of First birth? I have posed a similar question based on Karma, why dont you attempt to answer it,so that we can try to bridge this 2 thoughts.
>>> Few are poor , few are handicapt, few are blind, few too much sick ,why this unjustics by god with all these peoples?.>
I said this before. Unlike Karma,which calls sufferings as curse, Christianity teaches it as a part of living and ask this living in this world to bench mark with Heavenly entry requirments.. Sufferings/blind man or bedridden has less sins and its easy for them to reach the kingdom of God. Havent we seen the villager who sweats to make one meal a day, stil claims he is living a happy life than a rich man? Havent we seen happiness in bed ridden people than compared to jet setter? So you need to correct the definition for your idea of happiness? Untouchablewho are suffers of karma..,but in my view they are living a happy life? This is one good reason,which Christianity appeals to a common man, that it gives hope to those sufferers unlike hinduism’s Karma, which makes them feel still worse by calling it as curse of past, and gives them no motivation to come up. I would really appreciate if you could head on with a debate on Karma based on this line..
BASED ON MY ABOVE PREMISE, I CLAIM ‘KARMA’ IS A HUMAN-RIGHTS VOLATORY IDEOLOGY.. PLEASE ATTEMPT TO REFUTE ME
November 4th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Easwar>>First you try to understand our science – *where is first birth– there is no first birth as per our science**- we are poornam we are athee existence — for the athman no coming going time year kalam… this is becouse of our ignorance we feel we have suround with lot of problem>>
As you asked me to talk in line with Science, let me put it in a scientific way followed by a Hindu philosophy..
1) Many a mathematicians have attempted to explore Infinity.. There is also another lesser number (infinity minus 1).. Lets take first man is infinite, and that infinite should have been born without Karma,so how the curse percolated? .. There is an interesting link which I have read about this,based on mathematics of Integration/Laplace/Fourier Series..If you know these subjects, I can present it here to Prove Karma is wrong scientifically/Mathematically)
2) You should also explain, why there are few chosen ones, who has limited reincarnation, ie Dwija (Brahman twice born) and Untouchale (No Born)
2) If there is infinite birth, or a set of billion souls were existing (as us said, what we see after a sudden power cut), you need to explain the population explosion of the entire living beings. How the souls increase and decrease in count?
Every religion has been exploring the answer for sufferings on this earth…and which one gives a convincing answer… be it Karma/Salvation etc… Its an interesting debate, lets stick to it..
November 4th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
KAMAT>>>Pope should apologise for Laxmanananda murder>>>
Kamat, its Mr.Laxmananda’s Karma, right. He killed Christians in 2007 Christmas and Karma acted in 9Months time. So where is the problem??
November 5th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Sapr 333
KAMAT>>>Pope should apologise for Laxmanananda murder>>>
Kamat, its Mr.Laxmananda’s Karma, right. He killed Christians in 2007 Christmas and Karma acted in 9Months time. So where is the problem??
Good that you have come to conclusion & accepting karma…similar way every other th ings(aftermath) also happening ok…. so dont discriminate with everything.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:33 am
Hello folks, could you please refrain from wasting your time replying to moronic statements of the evangelists here? A week back this sapr was telling it wasn’t the christists, but the maoists who murdered Swamiji.Now look how this wolf is justifying the christists murderers heinous action. These butchers don’t understand the language of peace. We also don’t have to learn the words of wisdom profoundly flowing from our Vedas and other great works gifted to us by our ancestors from an evangelist’s mouth. Let’s continue and support the work started by Swamiji and other Hindu organizations and make this country conversion proof and away from the menace of jehadis. The good news is that we are also getting lot of covert support from many Christians and Moslems after the Orissa, Karnataka and Jamia Nagar incidents. Every citizen in this country should fart at the missionary leeches when they approach them with rice, milk powder and blankets. Let’s not deviate from the noble cause what Swamiji lived all his life for. What these morons don’t understand is the fact that when they abuse our motherland, they are abusing their own mothers as well. Now if they don’t care calling their mother a whore what should be our problem?
November 5th, 2008 at 1:53 am
Sapr 333
>>Daily thousand child taking birth on earth , is god have factory in heaven, why this countinous production? >>
This world is an ‘Intelligent Design’ of God and it evolves andmoves on with nature and freewill. What it would be according to your idea of First birth? I have posed a similar question based on Karma, why dont you attempt to answer it,so that we can try to bridge this 2 thoughts.
You did not give convincing answer for all my question, as per chiristianity.. I have only posted this question to you.. i wil aswer certainly when you convince me from the point of chiristian,.( I =give dam gurantee for you)
1) creation,
2)when did create,
3who create..
4)why create..
5)purpose of it(need)
6)How creater has come
7) creation is only one time
8)creation has been many times before also(tell as per cristiyanity)
9) How many years has been doing and what before creation
10)If heaven how many year/ hell how many years( as per cristiyanity)
11)Do he has any measurement for voluvating if suppose only gets 99 marks another gets 60 marks anther gets 50marks finnaly one get 30 marks.. what will happen to those 4 people who is gainer and who is sinner differenciate.
12)In heaven what will be there and hell what will be there as per cristianity
13)It is only to human
14) What will be for animal do they have life there( jan) are they are all insturment.. if\
15) If animal has got life.. enjoyment..sex.. birth.. do they have any moral…
16)What is moral code for animal& how creater measure animal..
17)willl animal also get heaven or hell or only human
18)is god is separate from universe(on toto )
Kindly answer to this 18 command very simply understandable way(simple english) am not english men.. am an indian & know only malayalam/tamil)
but you must answer me each question separetly one by one only…
If you answere it one by one (clearly no tough english simple english every one should understand thats wat you also want it correct)
Thank you dear I am expecting your speedy reply pleaseeeee pleaseee one by one simple english
Manythanks..
November 5th, 2008 at 1:53 am
Easwar_Tch>>Killing of Lakshmanada>>Good that you have come to conclusion & accepting karma>>
I was just jokingly saying it.. Matter of fact that thoughts are cruel and inhuman and I would definitely condemn the killing and seek to bring justice..
In any perspective, its wrong to blame it on Karma..Cos, it justfies Murder/Gives an opportunity for the murderers to continue with the killing, cos the killer thinks that he was killed in his earlier life and justifies his killing in the name of Karma, and we dont need any law enforcing agencies ,cos every Crime can be attributed to Karma, which will become a huge fallacy in the law of nature/Social living.
Most of the philosphers question Karma on this basis.. If you are interested to know about it, I can post some more informative article on that.
btw,If Lakshmanada was killed for Christian Cause/even the wrongs of Goan inquisitions, its not alone the Pope, the whole community of Christians should feel apologetic about it.
There is an interesting theology on Hitler’s genocide, which says, Though Christian motive was not behind Hitlers killing, every christian of German should feel apologetic, for being a silent spectator to a crime(not to blame it on Karma of Jews), which is against Christ’s teaching.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:54 am
@BHARATH
“The sexual abuse of nuns by priests is rampant “especially in Africa and other parts of the developing world” and is well within the knowledge of the Vatican.”
The difference between them in us is simple. Our swamis loot the rich and molest women devotees and rape women in the name of gratification but donot accept responsiblity and have no remorse unlike the christians.
Examples are plenty and just a few from thousand links.
home.no.net/anir/Sai/enigma/SaiSex.htm
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=37048
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/trinidad-and-tobago/TLESP83K3RGCLP52T
timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1022678.cms
http://www.xboard.us/showthread.php?t=152417
http://www.trinidadandtobagonews.com/selfnews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1179725516,46987,.shtml
http://www.flameout.org/flameout/gurus/shyam_celibateswami.html
http://www.gujaratglobal.com/nextSub.php?id=3200&cattype=NEWS
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=51737 – 46k
http://www.rickross.com/reference/clergy/clergy378.html
http://www.indlaw.com/guest/DisplayNews.aspx?5DF254A1-8BCA-4552-8A3E-70A4F1983F09
dont point finger when 9 pointed towards you.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:59 am
Sapr333,
Your answer must be a answer only, but dont try to put question again to me… once you answer this questions, by name of jesus i say that i will give answer all your questions which also can be one by one…
But your answer(one bye one) is must dont again go back for confusing yourself… you must have got clear.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:01 am
i also joking only… answer to my question one by one
November 5th, 2008 at 2:54 am
Asutosh Apte
November 5th, 2008 at 1:33 am
Hello folks, could you please refrain from wasting your time replying to moronic statements of the evangelists here? A week back this sapr was telling it wasn’t the christists, but the maoists who murdered Swamiji.Now look how this wolf is justifying the christists murderers heinous action.
Here is another bhajrangi eunuch who cannot distinguish two things and calls them as one.
The first one being , Panda, the maoist head claiming on camera that he has murdered the swami because of his violence related to beef eating and forcing panas to drink cow-urine in the process of re-conversion.
The second one being whether the slain terrorist who was a curse to hinduism really deserved to live?. By his in-human actions of killing dalit christians, sexually exploiting sadhwis though he was 80 years odd, and forceful re-conversions by death threats and trishul had spoiled the values of our faith.
And Lord vishnu must have killed him by coming into the body of that maoist there by saving hinduism from further denigration.
As far as mothers as whores as you said you should ask your mom why you are using apte as the surname when she doesn’t know who your father is .
November 5th, 2008 at 3:45 am
Sapr333,
“There is an interesting theology on Hitler’s genocide, which says, Though Christian motive was not behind Hitlers killing, every christian of German should feel apologetic, for being a silent spectator to a crime(not to blame it on Karma of Jews), which is against Christ’s teaching”
I want answer from you one by one which i ask you dont answer to this post first….. kinldy be clear that dont answer this post.
You mean to say all german’s are not chirstian at the time of doing killer act…When you talk of germen british usa .. you say silent spectetor very nice you are very neutral..when you talk of india all that is problem correct.. people are not democratic..neutral..killer.. cultural killer… impose thier will to other country men.. bad people as a whole..
nice thought of you.. good nationality.. hope you are indian?
November 5th, 2008 at 5:55 am
gajanan navda – Control your anger you evangelist hiding in a beautiful Hindu name…I know you inferior sudra can’t even imagine a name like this in your real life. So find solace in using good Hindu names at least in blogs like this….
Is any evangelist going to answer eshwars questions? At least one of it?
November 5th, 2008 at 6:12 am
FAKE WARRIOR DEEPAK KAMAT WHILE REFUTING NIRMAL SHARMA
Deepak Kamat
November 1st, 2008 at 11:51 am
NIRMAL SHARMA:: Hindus cannot unite and fight against any body for all of us Hindus are badly divided on caste lines.
Deepak kamat dogma:: Wrong again. Modi is OBC. Advani is Sindhi. Vajpayee is Behari, Shekawat is Rajasthani. Yet they are all there for the Hindu cause.
Reality: Five hindus donot make up for his calculations of crores of hindus who are against their doctrine. He criticised advani a frustrated man and not a hindu leader when he criticised his own folk terming “raping of nuns as heinus crime against mankind”. Shekhawat denied he was a rss man when he was pitted against pratibha patil ofr president’s post. vajapayi didnot approve genocide by modi during gujarath riots and termed them “shameful”. As far as Modi is concerned, VHP is up in arms gainst him lately.
Nirmal sharma: My question here is why can’t the Hindus fight Pak backed Terrorists in Kashmir.?
Deepak kamat dogma: R u crazy? You expect unarmed Hindus to fight AK-47 wielding terrorists. The Indian Army is Hindu army. Remember that.
Reality:. Bhajrangis can only attack only non-retaliating and innocent people because even though they claim being warriors, they are eunuchs in reality. And for his stupid information that Indian army is hindu army,it is not hindu army but indian army with people from all religions serve the nation. But these brahmins are dime a dozen because they are cowards.
Nirmal kamat: I am Kashmiri Brahmin living in USA a Christian Country with out fear or favour practising my religion as I would do in India.Had I not gone to USA I cannot imagine my situation in the Kashmir Valley.
Deepak kamat dogma: So now you have proved to be a coward. You fled to US and are now trying to demoralise Hindus living in India. Why didn’t you fight then? Were you not the same Kashmiri Pandit who refused to let Muslims reconvert to Hinduism.
Reality: Look who is calling whom a coward. Just now in previous para, he was asking nirmal..”R u crazy? You expect unarmed Hindus to fight AK-47 wielding terrorists. ” is calling nirmal a coward who had to face the same terrorists which shows who the real coward is.
Nirmal sharma: Deepak Kamat you are lunatic first put the facts correclty and then talk of saving India from Missionaries.
deepak kamat dogma: That is your own opinion. Keep it to yourself. I know myself and the nation better than you as I never tried to flee like a coward.
Reality: But when faced with the real enimy he would be the first one to flee like a coward. He knows the nation better because he knows where to hide when enimy arrives .
Nirmal sharma: Missionaries are onyl helping Dalits ad tribals which in my view are intoelrable by our upper caste people.
Deepak kamat dogma: Nice pipe dream. Was Galileo a Dalit and Tribal that he was tortured by Church?
Reality: The main reason for the attacks on missionaries is they help the downtrodden which hurts these upper casts because they were their slaves earlier. As far as galilio is concerned better late than never church had accepted its mistake which these fanatics would never have the daring to in the case of rapes.
Nirmal sharma: This is the main poison behind attacks on Missionaries.
Dogma: Then it only shows that you don’t know the history of Christianity.
Reality: History of hinduism is the worst compared to christian history in comparison to incest, rape, torture and murders too because we have even our gods doing the same.
Nirmal Sharma: Jai Hind
Dogma: From a man who fled to US, I think that’s not required.
Reality: Jai hind is not the paid trade mark of fanatics. And swamijis themselves are flying to us to be modern-gurus.
THAT IS TO EXPOSE THE FAKE WARRIOR DEEPAK KAMAT WHO FOOLS EVERY ONE THAT HE IS A WARRIOR WHERE AS IN REALITY A EUNUCH.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:25 am
shimsham
November 5th, 2008 at 5:55 am
gajanan navda – Control your anger you evangelist hiding in a beautiful Hindu name…I know you inferior sudra can’t even imagine a name like this in your real life. So find solace in using good Hindu names at least in blogs like this….
Evangelist is your father who has gone missing after your mom complained that you are not his product.
As far my name is concerned i need not hide it like you who is hiding it behind “shim-shim”. I would be a proud shudra than a napunsak like a bhajrangi.
You keep your name “shame shame” which fits you better your mother too may be not knowing whether shim shim was your father or no.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:19 am
These christists hiding in Hindu names are the real cowards. They don’t even have the guts to use a proprietary christist name for posting here. They can’t even answer simple and fundamental questions regarding their faith, yet they want to convert all living beings to their fundamental religion. Eshwar had clean bowled all these hypocrites with his simple but relevant questions. Now these faith healers cannot be seen. That’s why we are seeing more of Bhats, Navdas and other Hindu surname.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:31 am
Well Said ShimSham…
This was a HINDU NATION, IS AND CONTINUE TO BE A HINDU NATION.
JAI SRI RAM!!
JAI HIND!!
November 5th, 2008 at 7:46 am
Dear All
Hope this christian missionary people permanantly engaging people unwarrantly interepting, they are not knowlege seekers but distrayer of knowledge, they dont know what is religion and what is religious thing.. They are mostly working for religion hope with viswas they do post conceptless thought which we can just ignore. They never light any good thought so for, and even not able to answer simple questions. If this simple question are not able to meet why should we all waste time with them….
November 5th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Dear Fellow Hindu Sisters/Brothers:
Stick to your own convictions, never give a damn to western agent Soul Harvestor terrorists writings and words. Simply ignore them, never go for a useless debate. They simply does not have brain to debate with logic and reason, they are brainwashed by the church, the same way Jihadis are brainwashed by madrasas/mosqes.
Thats why Karl Marx had to say Religion is opium of the poor. It was sure for western world, as their religion means aggressive political ideology and imperialism. Conversion is a weapon to subjugate natives under white west control by destroying their culture, heritage and way of life.
We Hindus must be proud of our civilization, culture, dharma, heritage and way of life. Nowhere in the world such a glorious civilization floruished and sustained its continuity. All other civilizations get destroyed or destroyed by the invadors.
Here is a beautiful site, every Hindu and even non-Hindus must look, read and learn.
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/
Dharma rakshati rakshitah (Dharma protects those, who protect dharma).
November 5th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
One thing is true about this site, that christen are more interested in this site instead of hindu. They are more frequent visitor, and in many paragraph we had seen above posion in their mind about hindu religion. They are using abusing language too about God’s.
Its true that all hindu are not good, but same for christen , all christen too not good.
Why peoples are not understading a simple truth, God is not property of christen / muslim or hindu. Why they are trying to frame a suprem power in a code according to their belief and book.
No one has right to come between God and a devotee, even knowlege of bible , veda or any other holy books, they are just light to show us path.
Here i can see only fools, and their mind is feed with religious code and crule cleverty , heart with hate and words with posion.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Easwar TCH>>1) creation,2)when did create,3who create..4)why create>>
Trust you would agree with me, the purpose of religion is to find answers to all the unknown quest of mankind, like, for eg, Whats the purpose of life? Why humans wish to do good to others? Why all these sufferings and happiness? Why there is inequality? What will happen to us after birth? Why are we born here? Whats the cause? etc etc.. Of these,still there are lot of questions lies unanswered, which every religion is trying to attempt it..
To start with, I can tell, Adam-Eve story could be a mythology..A positive note to say is, when God wanted to communicate to humans, the only option in those early cannibal days is through a Mythology.. ‘Mythology is something which never existed, but do exist in our day to day life’.. The basic philosophical point we could draw from Christian Mythology is, ‘God created every humans out of his image(pls dont ask what his sex & colour is,but look in to the theme), and hence every human being is entitled to have is basic dignity.. This commands self respect for humans and others, and there by differentiate other livings such as plants/animals etc as those to be useful for man to enjoy.
Then God identified a particular community , which was in following Monotheism and started communication with them through Voice..And finally God revealed to humans through Jesus Christ,who lived a sinless life in order explain to humans, the nature of Absolute Holiness and Righteousness. This track gives any common man a basic theme, to respect dignity in life and have loving relationship with God, where as rest of the religions God is still a distant dream, including Jews…
Based upon this appreciate if you could re-frame your questions..again..
November 5th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Easwar-TCH>>You mean to say all german’s are not chirstian at the time of doing killer act…When you talk of germen british usa .. you say silent spectetor very nice you are very neutral..when you talk of india all that is problem correct.. people are not democratic..neutral..killer.. cultural killer… impose thier will to other country men.. bad people as a whole..>>
I think you have a problem with comprehending English..
What I said was, according to Jesus Christ’s teaching,any Christian(be it German or European) should feel apologetic/guilt for being a mute spectator to Hitlers Crime..Also, we should not forget that, its the Christian dominant countries US/UK who finally nailed hitler.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Rohit>>One thing is true about this site, that christen are more interested in this site instead of hindu. They are more frequent visitor, and in many paragraph we had seen above posion in their mind about hindu religion. They are using abusing language too about God’s.>>
Its true, this Hindoo site is flogged by Christians participants.. But you should ask this question to the owner of this blog Deepak Kamat!!
What was his objective in bringing hindu nationalism/Supporting terrorist organisation and above all, lack of response from him to counter the critics of Hinduism… Ask him why he opened this site.
For a Christian, its a positive note, and any one would thank Mr.Deepak Kamat from bringing a wonderful platfrom for Christians to debate about Hinduism.. I really appreciate the good efforts taken by participants like Easwar-TCh/Vamsi…Thanks Kamath..
November 5th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Soul harvesting business run by the agents of Western white Imperialism, uses 2000 years proven deceitful tactics. They perfected the art of destroying others cultures, civilizations, social systems and relations, way of life. They have no iota of shame for this, as that is their ideology.
===
Read here.
Faith is dangling between God and Money
http://www.odishatoday.com/Analysis/Faith_dangling_between_God_Money_011108-57687989074653125364.html
November 5th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Deepak Kamath>>Wrong again. Modi is OBC. Advani is Sindhi. Vajpayee is Behari, Shekawat is Rajasthani. Yet they are all there for the Hindu cause.>>
BJP is Brahmin Jathi Party.. Only BJP PM Vjapayee is a Brahmin. Hope we all know how he has to mince his own words, when he said he like booze and beef, he was forced to mince his own words..
What was the stand of BJP on Dalit/OBC affirmative action (Reservation)? If its concerned about dalit conversion, it should also care for their upliftment.
Rath Yathra famous Advani was set to become PM..But Vajpayee, night before took the flight to Delhi to see that Advani is locked in criminal case and Liberhan commision..This Sindhi fool Advani lost his PM post, and as usual Brahminic Vajpayee became PM, citing Advani as a charge sheeted person. This is the plight.. Uma Bharti is yet another victim.
I can list lots…
November 5th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
@Deepak
You are mentally sick…… you are mentally affected…
First look at what the hindu leaders are doing… They are encouraging rape, murder, robbery and violence(making bombs..etc)
You see that they ARE NOT APOLOGETIC FOR WHAT THEY DO and why do you demand apology from a person who is not responsible for this???
You are totally taken into control by Satan…. You are Satanic…
November 5th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Easwar, I hope you don’t mind me intervening in your questions to Sapr. To start with, I don’t have any problem with “philosophies’ which tries to explain God’ s nature or the Universe’ s nature. My fight is against the Nazi group of people in India who call themselves HindutwaWadis, who have set up a machinery to attack other religions, effectively smothering other faiths and create issues to help their politcial arm which is BJP. (Ram Janmabhoomi, Kasmir Temple, Ramsetu). I can see that Vamsi is not fully into this outfit but only debating out of his own interest. But You, Bharat, and Satinder, sirs you are Hindutwa Nazis are n’t you? . What is your take on people having the right to practice and propagate their religion? What is your take on people criticizing religious texts? (Ofcourse you are doing that right now). I can see that you get offended by the mere mention of the word Christian as if Christians took away your posessions. I can see that you probabaly never had any exposure to Christians and so have the fear of the unknown.
It is interesting that we are talking very different languages. Sapr is basing his statements on faith (as in we need that leap of faith) , basic morality (obviously which is not a fundamental strength for Hindu Dharama) , salvation – which is different in these two faiths. On the otherside, the Hindutwawaadi’s step back from Puranas and stone gods and hit back with their strength which is a spiritual philosopy. Interesting how they have to rest all their case on Sankara who was born 2000 years after first Vedas were born.
While I respect the thinking, let me tell you Easwar, Advaita or any other “philopshy” does not really give you any real path to Moksha?Nirvana?Paradise whatever you call it. The thought is good that somebody has to realize that only Brahman is true, but how practical is this? and to attain Moksha you need a “Guru”,( I see pimping for Brahminism here) and then his theory goes down when he says idol worship is acceptable, since you can see the Brahmin everywhere? Thus he bails out Brahmins and make sure their daily living is not affected.
Now you will say that these concepts were there from Vedas. But no, not completely. These concepts were reformed again after the contact with Budhism and Jainism, right? This is an explanatiom why the Nirguna parabrahmam from Vedas should be seen through the million gods and thus the temple based Brahminical system should be expanded. It does not matter if the gods like Rama or Krishna is real or not. Everything is Maya, so it is OK. So naturally we should think we can really worship anything and expect some kind of effect. How about worshipping ourselves? I see it as a clear deciet that millions were told to worship gods that do not truely exists but only an effect of Maya just like them. What kind of rubbish is this? Then if it is all Maya (which is the core theory of Sanatana Dharma) why do we have these very perverted “Dharma” system. Does it become much easier for the Common person to take the “sorrows of life” just because the Brahmin Pundit tells you it is all a maya.
So, are n’t we in the same boat when it comes to expalining “divine secrets?”. To us, the reason is not revealed. We are trying to assume things. For example Sankara thinks the creation and Maya of life is just what it is – a play of the Brahmin. Then my question is why should a “Nirguna Parabrahmin” get involved with playing with Maya? Jsu like you ask about Hebrew God, we can ask who created Nirguna Parabrahmam. We all have the same answer – he was there forever!.
Science contradicts all these religions when it comes to the creation. Interestingly science also hasn’t been able to find a “reason” for life and the existence of universe. This were faith and philosophy contributes to human mind. In the near future ( 50 years) we may be finding some more answers.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Rohit . may be we are interested because we stand accused .. for perverting people, being non patriotic, agents of the white man, I think we wil like to clarify ourselves.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Bharat>>Stick to your own convictions>>
Who has given you this right to ask others to stick to their own convictions.. Who are you to stop their feelings of their heart and personal things? Why dont you respect individual human-rights? Do you want them to have closed mind, and stop them from further exploring the Truth?
>>>Thats why Karl Marx had to say Religion is opium of the poor.>>
So, do you agree with Karl Marx , saying Hinduism is the Opium/Brownsugar for the mass.Whats your stand in this debate?
>>>We Hindus must be proud of our civilization, culture, dharma, heritage and way of life.>>
Its not hindus alone,every Indian should(rather would) feel proud of his own goodness of Indian culture, might as well condemn its own evil culture like Untouchablity/Sati/Casteism/in human attitude etc…
>>>> Nowhere in the world such a glorious civilization floruished and sustained its continuity. All other civilizations get destroyed or destroyed by the invadors. >>
Please read history, and death of civilizations.. Any civilization which has not respected human rights, had taken its own death..Thanks to the cultures acquired from Parsis/Syrians/Moguls/Portuguese/British.. It helped Indians to change their own culture and to substain it
November 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Emmarcee>>the Hindutwawaadi’s step back from Puranas and stone gods and hit back with their strength which is a spiritual philosopy>>
First of all let me admit, you have really gone well through hinduism’s vocabs.. I would now attempt to explain to Easwar about Spirituality..Its similar to the generic term which a common man claims hinduism has greatest philosphies, until he reads Aristotile/Plato/St.Thomas Aquinos/Agustine..Its just a claim, similar to those who claim it as great culture,without knowing what culture is.. Do we call an ancient culture as great,which has denied educational rights and forcibly asked a particular sects to scoop your excreta? Do you call untouchablity as a sign of ancient culture, while comparing to Greeks and Romans of similar timeline..(Im sure you would have seen the Troy Movie, and now compare with ancient Hindu varna society, where only Kshatriyas were allowed to defend India, only to surrender to the invaders)..
Anyways, coming to the point of Spirituality..Spirituality is only about control of mind(like how we close eyes and pray to God), and gods like Shiva has used the help of Marijuana to commune with God.. Yoga is yet another hindu idea, which deprives Oxygen and takes one to hallucination, so that one feels like either reaching god or riding in rocket.. Christian spirituality is nothing but communion with God, and condemns hallucination .
Sapr is basing his statements on faith (as in we need that leap of faith) , basic morality (obviously which is not a fundamental strength for Hindu Dharama)
Im not sure if you had entered in debate with Moslems on this title.. Islamic scholars argue that, all the un-holy acts of Mohammed (rape/caravan looting/child sex/genocide)as divine thing, and they take a strong stand on this, claiming who are you to question/validate god’s act.Unfortunate, hinduism,which is quite confused, only would look around the democratic world and tries to justify it in vain.. If you ask the same question to a Nepali(Hindu Kingdom), he would answer like a Moslem, not like an Indian hindu.
>>Everything is Maya, so it is OK>>
If you throw a Social/Moral question on a hindu, the response is “Its way OFF life”.and if you ask a philosophical question, upon failure to answer, it ends up “MAYA’..
>>>Thus he bails out Brahmins and make sure their daily living is not affected.>>
Thats one reason, the missionaries made sure Brahminic monopoly is shattered.. And in just a decades time, it made sure India a literate country, ie , in a country which deprived education for 97% of populace..
>>>Science contradicts all these religions when it comes to the creation. >>
I would contradict you here.. Both science and religion should answer to each other..Let me know, if you have any contradictory view on this?
November 5th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Rohit>>Why peoples are not understading a simple truth, God is not property of christen / muslim or hindu.>>
I agree with you 100%..God can not be confined to any thing, even Akhanda Bharath..And we dont need a man (RSS/VHP/Hanuman Brigade) to defend/protect God, who is Supreme, as every religion says so..
Do I have any difference with you,on this?
November 5th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Bharat
November 5th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
BHARAT DOGMA:Soul harvesting business run by the agents of Western white Imperialism, uses 2000 years proven deceitful tactics
REALITY:If it is a business according to you then swami vivekananda, ramkrishna mission are too business men right?.
Decietful ways are of laxmananda and bhajrangis who terrorise people with death threats and burning innocents alive are heinus crimes not feeding poor. These brahmins have no charity but only a treacherous mind which is full of jealousy that their shudra servants are getting educated and compete with them, thatz it.
My dear hindu brothers and sisters, if you believe these idiots our hinduism would be nothing but rowdyism and no sane person would associate with these cancerous elements in our faith.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
To answer easwr,
Creation: to start with, SD does not have a bulletproof answer either, right? Since we were not there we can only go through myths and writings form antiquity. Anyway, there must be atleast couple of reasons in Hindusim, one being just the dream if Purusha, and the second a creation of Maya. The only reason whu Brama has maya and creation is – you guessesd it- “that is his nature”, Vow!!
Hebrews were much more materialistic. For them the creation is “true” and not a dream. Then again anything pertaining to the one true God was very Holy and not to be messes with. They did not want to even use his name. Only later jewish scholars started dwelling into the “nature of god and Creation”. Believe it or not they also formed theories of “the basic Brahma, the big God and the emanations which are the creations and a lot of spiritual beings good and bad coming from the emanations. It is as much nonsensical as maya when it realtes to us. These theories did not really give any solution for salvation either. One use of these theories was to find a reason for all the negatives that is happening in our material world. There is both Jewish and Christian Kaballistic movement. Actually this nonsense growing as SD Swamis are trying to spread their version about Maya. Spirituality is a hotsell. But afterall the whim, it does not do anything for humanity. Faith which tells u sto take care of each other rather than “judge” you depending on your birth will be the one I respect. Christinity and Budhism (both in their basic teaching) represent this humanistic approach and so they were successfull. Islam could have been good but it became perverse by Arabic imperialism, overt show of male only dominance and attck on freedom of expression. They were the first fascists… everything under their controll.
why create: as per Christian faith, well, just like yours, creation is something that god does. How about that? Man was created to lead the world as hid representative, since as per scripture man was created in his likeness.
How many times? . Different belief systems. Some say spiritual beings were created before this known world.. how do we know. Who really has this knowledge?
How creator has come? ; Ho wdid your Purusha come into being? Did you see it? — well He was always there.
How many years? ; Absudity increases as the depth of question increases. If I say Billion Billion years, how are you going to disprove me? You know what, same thing iin vedas, there is no reasoning or timely manner for creation as per scripture. Once Gods start to create itis like Diarrohea.. everything happens very fast. Read the absurdity of Parajapati’s split body first.
If Heaven ?hell – how many years? … I don’t know ahat you mean, but I am sure it something stupid like may other questions.
who is a sinner? This will just need another blog- (I did not understand Q) The q sounds like some Pharisee trying to debate with Jesus. Is it that you want to know how you will be judged? We always say, it is not for us to judge. That is God’s job. You fix yourself first, before you look into the other person’s score.
About animals. Let me tell you why Judaic tradition may be better than the theory of Re-incarnation. Do we agree that a child of 2 or 3 is innocent? IQ of the smartest animal matches only up to 3 or 4. (Indians did not know about IQ of Chimp). So how could you say that a soul will be eborn as a lizard and then if it does good, will be born as a cow next janma and so on. That will your talking point, right? How could you judge these innocent beings? As per Judeo Christian theology you have a judgement only if you have a free will. We don’t even know what is the deal with people who may not have heard about Jesus before they died. So the animals, anything does n’t have a free will does not need the salvation through the sacrifice on Cross. We don’t want to send them through a trip from Janma to Janma.
As I said, the Moksha is different in Hindusm and Christinity. In christianity it is about being in the bliss of God’s presence, when Jesus is going to be with us in our transformed self. He can take care of the animals if he can take care of worse being like us.
God is separate:.. If I say he is, how will you prove I am right, except with a quote from Gita? anyway, he was able to come into our dimension as Son of Man, giving his body for the world making it all one for believers, did n’t he? Anyway, as per Judaic tradition he is transcedental I think. I guess Hindus can debate among themselves about this because there are different theories. As I said, this is philosophy, not a matter of faith or way of life.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
>>>Science contradicts all these religions when it comes to the creation. >>
I would contradict you here.. Both science and religion should answer to each other..Let me know, if you have any contradictory view on this?
Though I believe in Jesus as Christ, I cannot take the first 4 books as absolute truth. But I am sure they did not right with bad intent. Sooner or later, we must be able to tie everything togther. I don’t belive in Darwinism either. But it makes the search for truth interesting.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Ajit
November 5th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
@Deepak
You are mentally sick…… you are mentally affected…
First look at what the hindu leaders are doing… They are encouraging rape, murder, robbery and violence(making bombs..etc)
You see that they ARE NOT APOLOGETIC FOR WHAT THEY DO and why do you demand apology from a person who is not responsible for this???
Reality:RAPE:
Why should we be apologetic about rapes?.
Rapes are the results of frustrattion and lust.
When krishna himself could not resist the temptation to see naked girls having bath , we are just mortals.
When brahma could not control his sexual urge and lusted indras’s babe oorvashi and masterbated godess saraswati was born. Brahma couldnot control his sex urge he had towards his own daughter saraswati that he forcibly had sex with her and you may call it incest but it is lust to the point of frustration. When our gods themselves couldnot control the sex urge who are you to complain?
Reality: murder;
There are numerous examples on how our own gods have committed murders and why do u blame us hindus now?. dont u know that in bhagawad gita krishna himself urged arjun not to think about brotherhood and kill his own brother karna. Bhagawad gita is the ultimate word for us. when it teaches us that “means are not important and only the end is”.
Each one has different ends. One has kingdom, one has sex, and one has hatred. but when you have ‘end’ in sight, the means to achive that end is not at all important. How would you know this if you are a non hindu?
Reality: Violence;
Why do you blame us for violence?. didn’t you know that our veer hanuman burnt the entire lanka even though his enemy was ravan? He burnt alive lakhs of innocent lankans in the process and violence is part of our faith and you cannot argue with us regarding that.
Finally you have rightly said that we are being un-apologitiic because we donot have an sin concept like you. our religion is the way of life. there are no dos and donts. We rape, burn innocents alive and our religion has not taught us morals unlike you guys. so what is the point in blaming us?
November 5th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Emmarcee>>Though I believe in Jesus as Christ, I cannot take the first 4 books as absolute truth>>
As I said earlier in one of my responses to Easwar… God could have only interacted with early-humans (with their level of understanding) through Mythology. Its only after Moses, its well recorded in history or traditions. Adam-Eve-Creation could be a good convincing mythology, which would drive two important points..
God created Humans out of his image, and hence we need to respect every human… And, any deviation from God’s absolute holiness is Sin and God punishes those sinners. And futher down the line of OT, he speaks (WORD) to humans and conveys, that ‘Forgiveness of Sins’ is possible with God.. This is the basic core theme of early Judo-Christian view..
And if you view the Creationsim of Christianity with this perspective, Im sure it would drive it along with science..In my view, both science and religion should comprehend and compliment each other.. Science is all about exploring the worldly matters and religion is all about exploring our heart/feeling/conscience/and quests which couldnt be answered by Science..
November 5th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Conversations with foreign-funded charity
Excerpts.
Has the time come for the Government to set up a National Commission to investigate religious conversions in India? Certainly. Let the Nation know how many conversions have taken place from—and into—Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Sikhism and other faiths since 1947. Let the commission throw light on the districts where, and how, significant changes in religious demography have taken place, and whether conversions have created resentment and social disharmony in their wake.
An unbiased commission would reveal three irrefutable facts: (1) Christianity accounts for the largest number of
converts; (2) Christian organisations conduct service activities—schools, hospitals, poverty-alleviation programmes, relief during calamities, etc.—with exemplary dedication and professionalism. However, some of them, though not all, make the conversion agenda a part of their seva agenda; (3) Foreign funds supporting these charitable activities have greatly aided conversions.
read here.
http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=995&Itemid=1
November 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
I am not even answering Bharat, because he is busy cutting and pasting like other hate bloggers. So why are they making thi s commission and research about conversion? if people decide to change their faith they must be free to follow their will. These investigations are part of a terror mechanism, legal way just like numerous antifreedom anticonversion bills. They add clauses in the bill so that they can go and arrest any missionary the moment they talk to a Hindu.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
and of course Bharat is deepu is Deepak
November 5th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Bharat>>>An unbiased commission would reveal three irrefutable facts: (1) Christianity accounts for the largest number of
converts;>>>
Its a known fact.. I read it from one of the RSS/Bajrangi sites, that the real Christian population in India is 7%(inspite of small family size) and almost 60% of Coastal Andrapradesh has already become Christians a decade ago.. Truth Prevails, thats what Sanatana Dharma is all about…isnt it?
>>> Christian organisations conduct service activities—>>>schools, hospitals, poverty-alleviation programmes, relief during calamities, >>>, some of them, though not all, make the conversion agenda a part of their seva agenda; >
Have you ever pondered, why RSS/Bajrandal couldnt do somthing of this calibre? From where they get inspirations to rape/murder/torch?
>> Foreign funds supporting these charitable activities have greatly aided conversions>>
Dont talk in air? Dollars cannot be carried in cabin-baggages.. Govt has a good FERA act.. If you know any missionary is taking in illegal foreign money, you have the full liberty in our democratic India to report to the nearest police station and ask for F.I.R copy the next day morning… Please act on this, if you have some info of illegal foreign fund flow..
November 5th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Bharat
November 5th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Dear Fellow Hindu Sisters/Brothers:
Stick to your own convictions, never give a damn to western agent Soul Harvestor terrorists writings and words. Simply ignore them, never go for a useless debate. They simply does not have brain to debate with logic and reason, they are brainwashed by the church, the same way Jihadis are brainwashed by madrasas/mosqes.
We as real hindus are not endangered by missionaries nor by christians. They are not soul harvesters but people with good moral standards unlike us hindus. their service oriented life should be emulated to strengthen our faith rather than this rowdyism rapes and burning churches etc.
We are not brainwashed by the christians but by these sangh parivar to hate the nobble sect which are never a liability to the nation but is a force to reckon with for the development of our nation by their contribbution.
it has become a fad with these good for nothing fellows to point out those who oppose them as pseudoseculars or christians or muslims etc.
It is these hate-mongers who are nation-dividers ,we have to kick out.
jai hind , jai bharath mata.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Bharat
November 5th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Conversations with foreign-funded charity
DOGMAS
“Has the time come for the Government to set up a National Commission to investigate religious conversions in India? Certainly. Let the Nation know how many conversions have taken place from—and into—Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Sikhism and other faiths since 1947. Let the commission throw light on the districts where, and how, significant changes in religious demography have taken place, and whether conversions have created resentment and social disharmony in their wake. ”
REALITY:
This person who is living in india and doesnot respect constitution, who should be considered a desh-drohi for his hate-other sect borrowed views and speeches. India is a soverign country and right to freedom of religion and conversion to any religion with free will is vested to all the citizens.
If at all one has forced with trishul or gunpoint then it is illegal and every one knows who is doing that. so stop blabbering about conversions.
DOGMA2
“An unbiased commission would reveal three irrefutable facts: (1) Christianity accounts for the largest number of
converts; (2) Christian organisations conduct service activities—schools, hospitals, poverty-alleviation programmes, relief during calamities, etc.—with exemplary dedication and professionalism. However, some of them, though not all, make the conversion agenda a part of their seva agenda; (3) Foreign funds supporting these charitable activities have greatly aided conversions
REALITY:
If they do it there is no illegality in it because they are not breaking any laws.
If they were the highest converts then their population woulnot be mere 2.5%.
If foreign funds are used for the betterment of our poor people let them get cured, being fed as these brahmins know only to use them to do their dirty jobs and that is the very reason these upper-casts hate christians and not because they convert.
This bharath is a person whose mind is corrupt and he keeps serching for hate christian views on the net and keeps pasting them. he has no clear views except for hatred. Hindus beware of this insane person who is ought to finish our faith by his idiocracy because religion is not war to be won by killing and defeating others . He needs to consult a psychiatrist. Sooner the better.
November 6th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Wow! What a debate and what an argumentative knowledge!! I dont know ….. but the interpretation of Hanuman, Krsna is really wonderful and for that matter, BhagawadGita – mind blowing!!!!! Very true!! I didnot realize this till now. How fool of me!! Great!
. Wonderful! That said, please leave us, sinners, alone. We’ll continue this an let us be punished by God.
Yes, we Hindus are good for nothing with no morals. Given a chance we’ll try to do any sin (afterall our Gods have ‘done’ those…who are we) and our parents and ancestors have done the same
Easwar,
I warned you about this consequence in my first post on this page. Atleast lets wrap it up.
O my Lord(whoever or whatever you are)! Please save us all from all the ’saviours’. We want to sin and be punished by you!!
Thanks
November 6th, 2008 at 12:59 am
Sadhvi Pragya Thakur’s arrest and the questioning of Hindutva extremists for the Malegaon blasts point to the need for action against majoritarian extremism which has sponsers in the top ranks of BJP hierarchy.
WHEN this column (Frontline, October 6, 2006) raised doubts about the police account of the terrorist bombings, which killed more than 30, in Malegaon in northern Maharashtra, many readers questioned this writer’s motives and the validity of his argument that the attacks were in all probability executed by Hindutva fanatics.
Two years on, the Maharashtra Anti-Terrorism Squad (ATS) has arrested Sadhvi Pragya Thakur. In Madhya Pradesh, Mahashtra and Gujarat, a number of other Hindutva extremists have been detained for interrogation. They have reportedly found solid evidence of the existence of an elaborate, well-ramified terrorist network, which they suspect was involved in several recent bombings in different States, including the blasts in Malegaon and in Modasa in Gujarat in September.
A relook at terror
If the police succeed in substantiating their allegations, the government will have to radically revise its view of terrorism, which it sees primarily, if not solely, as the work of extremist organisations such as the Indian Mujahideen, the Students Islamic Movement of India, the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Harkat-ul-Jihad al-Islami, many of them linked to Pakistan/Bangladesh.
The government will also have to go after or ban Hindutva groups such as the Bajrang Dal, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), the Sri Ram Sena and, above all, the Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh (RSS), which mentors them and to which they are affiliated. At the centre of the recently discovered Hindutva extremist network are, allegedly, Sadhvi Pragya Thakur, her accomplices Shyam Banwarilal Sahu and Shivnarayan Singh Kalsangar and others such as Sameer Kulkarni and Ramesh Upadhyay, a former Army officer.
Even more important are the organisations to which they belong, including the Hindu Janajagaran Manch and the Sanatana Ashram in Panvel and the Bhonsala Military School in Nashik run by the Central Hindu Military Education Society, established in 1935 by B.S. Moonje – a Hindutva zealot and former Hindu Mahasabha president – who was close to RSS founder K.B. Hedgewar but well to his right.
The terrorist involvement of some of these organisations was detected in 2006 when the ATS of the Maharashtra Police investigated an accidental bomb explosion on April 6 in the house of RSS member L.G. Rajkondwar in Nanded, not far from Malegaon. Bajrang Dal activists Naresh Rajkondwar and Himanshu Panse were killed while attempting to fabricate a bomb along with fellow-extremists.
The ATS filed a charge sheet in August 2006 in which it established the existence of a Bajrang Dal-centred terrorist network. This network was responsible for terrorist bombings in November 2003 at a mosque in Parbhani in Maharashtra’s Marathwada region and in August 2004 at mosques in Jalna and Purna in the same region. The bomb that went off accidentally at Nanded was apparently meant to be used at a mosque in Aurangabad.
The Marathwada-based extremists were trained in bomb-making near Pune, in Goa and at the Bhonsala Military School, where an RSS camp coached more than 100 participants in the use of firearms and in martial arts.
According to the ATS, this operation was part of a large conspiracy to target Muslims and create an impression that Muslim extremists would kill other Muslims to provoke disaffection, widen the communal divide and stoke extremism. This would play straight into the hands of the Hindutva forces, which would attribute all acts of terrorism, including diabolical ones directed at Muslims, solely to Muslims.
The September 2006 bombings in Malegaon outside a crowded mosque after the Friday prayers fit this pattern to a T. Ironically, the police held Muslims responsible, ignoring all material evidence and important clues: the victims were exclusively Muslims observing Shab-e-Barat, or remembrance of the dead, in an adjoining graveyard; the bicycles in which the bombs were planted had Hindu names painted on them.
The police overplayed the “telltale” use of RDX explosive although only one of the three forensic laboratories detected its presence. The Union Home Secretary, no less, had ruled RDX out. But RDX is no Muslim monopoly. It can be procured by any determined group.
Shortly after the explosion at Nanded on April 6, the Secular Citizens’ Forum and the People’s Union for Civil Liberties in Nagpur and the Movement for Peace and Justice in Nanded collected photographs that, according to them, showed a bomb-fabrication operation run by the Bajrang Dal. The pictures proved that the local police tried to cover up Bajrang Dal-VHP involvement by planting firecrackers to suggest that the blast was not caused by bombs. They also ignored the planting of false beards to suggest that the perpetrators were Muslims. They played down the fact that a second bomb was recovered from the same place.
Diluted charges
The activists specifically warned of an imminent attack by Hindutva militants but were ignored. Soon thereafter, Malegaon happened. The Nanded case was transferred to the Central Bureau of Investigation.
According to anti-communalism activist Teesta Setalvad, who moved a Right to Information application to get hold of the CBI’s charge sheet, the CBI considerably diluted the terrorism-related charges and presented the Nanded explosion as an isolated incident unconnected with the Sangh Parivar and delinked from a larger conspiracy. It then pleaded its “inability” to proceed with the investigation.
Since then, Sangh Parivar activists have been implicated in other explosions that took place while bombs were being fabricated in places as varied as Kanpur and Tenkasi, besides Nanded again. There have been any number of instances of Bajrang Dal activists distributing trishuls – four million in Rajasthan alone, according to former Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot – forming anti-Muslim suicide squads, and training members in the use of firearms. They have brazenly owned up to the recent ethnic cleansing operation against Christians in Orissa and to intimidating other minorities.
The Indian state’s response to these manifestly illegal and obnoxiously communal activities has been soft, if not supine. This has encouraged the most vicious and aggressive Hindutva forces to step up their offensive, thus further alienating our already threatened and beleaguered minorities.
Patriotic extremists?
The government’s reluctance to bring Sangh Parivar fanatics to book is premised on the belief that Hindu extremists are somehow more “patriotic” and, therefore, less evil than Islamist extremists. This is a Hindu-majoritarian, anti-secular view. It presumes that Hindus, by virtue of being the majority, are quintessentially more committed to the Indian nation than Muslims or Christians, and hence deserving of sympathy.
This repugnant presumption profoundly misrepresents and seriously violates India’s civic nationalism, which is based on the modern concept of equality of all citizens irrespective of their religion or ethnicity. It is incompatible with our Constitution’s foundational values. In reality, the Sangh Parivar is not committed to the Indian nation but to the “Hindu nation”, in which the minorities must accept a subordinate, second-class status.
Powerful refutation of this presumption was offered by the barbaric burning alive of Graham Staines and his two children in Orissa by Bajrang Dal activist Dara Singh; the Gujarat pogrom; and other gory episodes of violence against Indian citizens and offences against India’s plural, multi-ethnic, multi-religious foundations.
BJP’s responsibility
Militant majoritarianism has held sway in India over the past 20 years and created great fear and insecurity among Muslims. Hindutva’s rise has deeply affected official thinking and given India’s counter-terrorism strategy an Islamophobic edge. A significant number of police and intelligence officials, both serving and retired, have embraced hard or soft Hindutva. Muslim alienation from the government has never been greater. This is especially so where Muslims have been harassed or treated with suspicion, as after the Batla House episode.
The lion’s share of the responsibility for this unacceptably deplorable state of affairs rests with the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), many of whose members seamlessly walk in and out of the front organisations of the RSS, and whom the RSS uses at will. Sadhvi Pragya Thakur, for instance, was a leader of the Akhil Bharatiya Vidyarthi Parishad (ABVP) for nearly a decade and campaigned for the BJP during the last Assembly elections in Gujarat. Her associates have a similar relationship with Sangh Parivar organisations.
It simply will not do for the BJP to pretend that it is unconnected to these organisations and individuals or, more egregiously, that there can be no “Hindu terrorist” because Hinduism is inherently tolerant and incapable of a fundamentalist interpretation. Indeed, Hindutva embodies intolerance in its most malignant form.
The Indian state will further damage its already frayed secular credentials unless it stops being pusillanimous and musters the courage to take on the Sangh Parivar while protecting the minorities. It must ban the RSS, the Bajrang Dal, the VHP and other extremist groups; prosecute BJP and ABVP members who have links with them; and cleanse its police, security and intelligence apparatuses of communally inclined personnel. No less important, it must set up a high-level commission on the Gujarat pogrom and other recent communal atrocities to punish the guilty.
The ruling coalition has failed to reaffirm a secular agenda in a credible way. Unless it acts with determination and despatch, Hindutva hatred and prejudices will undermine interreligious harmony and tear this society asunder.
November 6th, 2008 at 2:56 am
Look how conveniently the evangelists diverted the topic. This is what happens every time when they are confronted with questions regarding rationality. That’s the reason why great minds like Nietzsche, Bertrand Russell, Annie Besant, Thomas Jefferson, Voltaire and numerous others were against this religion. They say they have the most powerful God, yet when some locals retaliate fearing demographic change to their locality, they’ll start abusing RSS/BD and other Hindu organizations. Rape is the “main item” in their charges. The fact is till today no RSS/BD men are convicted for what these people claim. It was like that in Mumbai, Madhya Pradesh, and now in Orissa same thing is going to happen. They are so much obsessed with rape, because it’s a frequent thing amongst the priests of the 20,000 different sects of this religion. I have noticed a huge no of links given by an evangelist maligning Hindu spiritual leaders like Sai Baba and others. The fact is Sai Baba of Puttaparthy in all his life had visited only one foreign country which is Uganda and yet for his sixtieth birthday a staggering 1000000 people of which 40 lakh were foreigners gathered. He has not appointed any marketing executives to find devotees. You should think what made these many people to flock to this small village in India. So is the case with Sri Sri Ravishankar, Ma Amrithanadamayi, Osho, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and others. The western universities are extensively teaching the knowledge what we possessed from our great Rishis and Acharyas. In many European universities you have to learn Sanskrit which is the mother of all languages to yearn a PhD. This century without doubt I can claim belong to Hindus. So better be a part of it rather being left out.