Pope should apologise for Laxmanananda murder
Following are some instances in which the papacy admitted errors or apologised for actions of the Roman Catholic Church. If he can do so for trivial causes, why can’t he do so for the heinous murder of Swami Lakshmanananda in Kandhmal
1992: After 13 years of study by the Vatican, Pope John Paul II declared that the church was wrong to condemn astronomer Galileo for maintaining that the earth was not the centre of the universe. The scientist was formally rehabilitated and the pope said Galileo’s condemnation had resulted from “tragic mutual incomprehension”.
1992: Visiting a former centre of the slave trade in Senegal, John Paul begged for forgiveness for the Christians involved in the slave trade. “From this African sanctuary of black pain, we begged the pardon from above,” the pope said.
1995: John Paul issued a document saying that the Church was “truly sorry” for any discrimination or mistreatment of women.
1995: During a visit to the Czech Republic, John Paul asked forgiveness for violence by Catholics against Protestants during the 16th century Counterreformation. “Today I, the pope of the Church of Rome, in the name of all Catholics, ask forgiveness for the wrongs inflicted on non-Catholics during the turbulent history of these peoples.”
1998: In a document on the Holocaust, John Paul expressed remorse for the cowardice of some Christians during the Nazi persecution of Jews, regretting the silence of those who “were not strong enough to raise their voices in protest”.
1999: John Paul denounced the persecution of Jan Hus, a 15th-century religious reformer and precursor of Protestantism who was burned at the stake.
2000: On a solemn Day of Pardon during the Holy Year, John Paul asked forgiveness for the sins of Catholics through the ages, including wrongs inflicted on Jews, women and minorities. During the ceremony it was the future Benedict XVI, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who spoke of the Inquisition, confessing “sins committed in the service of the truth”.
2000: In a visit to Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem, John Paul said the Catholic Church is “deeply saddened by the hatred, acts of persecution and displays of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews by Christians at any time and in any place”.
2001: On a visit to Athens, John Paul issued a sweeping apology for wrongs committed by Roman Catholics against Orthodox Christians.
2001: Sending his official word over the internet for the first time, John Paul apologised for missionary abuses against indigenous peoples of the South Pacific.
2006: Pope Benedict XVI said on Sunday he was “deeply sorry” that Muslims worldwide took offence over a speech he gave in Germany on September 12 about Islam and holy war.
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Fascist Trends in Indian Media
November 9th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Dear Sister Sheetal,
I actually wanted to refrain from posting any content here, but seeing your posts, I had to again post the epics’ content. Its only a discusssion(not an argument) with you and with nobody else here(Request to Others- please try not to intervene with your doubts/philosphies, I cannot argue with you people). Before starting on, my sincere plea is to go through the authentic translations or the originals (if you are comfortable with Samskrit) written by Valmiki/VedaVyasa. In my own mother tongue there are 10s of retellings of Ramayana (including a woman scholar from potters’-community in 15th century too). The originals were written somewhere in the past, but in the medieval period because of the high-handedness of the brahmins(by birth and not by the job they were doing), these originals were taken as a reference with the things being retold in the fashion they liked. Also, I can provide you with the links where this filth is coming from. Some of this filth is in the medieval rewritings and some are add-ons or self-interpretations. Believe me, I’ve gone through some of them already and found that most of these are misinterpretations and cook-ups.
So, lets startof with the Saraswathi purana…
The question was about Brahma and how Saraswathi was born – Urvashi was not born yet at that time of creation to startwith… as she is born from the thigh of Shiva (one purana tells that she is born from the thigh of Narayana of Nara-Narayan episode). The story of the Urvashi’s birth goes the same way in both puranas, the creator’s being different. Again, Brahma while creating the Universe, mooted of someone who should be the adhistana devatha of learning, wisdom, music and arts. From his imagination was Sarawathi born. Seeing her all with grace/wisdom he thought of marrying her and he did. Thats the story. In DeviBhagavatha (again a purana) a different story was mentioned.
Rama’s birth :-
Dasaratha performed the Ashwametha Yagna as was pointed out by you. But this proves only that the king is not-conquerable whereever the horse had treaded. To bear children, they performed ‘PutraKamesti’ Yaga in addition to the above. And when the dieties (demi-gods) were satisfied, there rose a diety from the ritual ground with a bowl of Kheer in it. This kheer actually doesnt make the queens bear children, but it was told that it makes them more fertile. And the part of delivering of queens to Brahmins is not in the original. It was a cookup maybe in the medieval period.
Rama – polygamy :-
Rama never married any other woman or had any physical contact with other woman for the sheer pleasure of it. We cannot find anything in support of this in the Valmiki-Ramayana. There is an episode of ChandraSena(incarnation of BhuDevi) where the Rama squarely rejects her proposal to marry her and when she pleads with him he grants it to her that in Krsna incarnation she can become the PattaMahishi and she was none other than SatyaBhama.
Rama – Cow meat :-
It has to be agreed that there was meat-eating (but not beef) habit among the brahmins in the ancient period. This is clarified by the Agasthya eating Vatapi (the rakshasa) who was turned to a goat by Ilvala (Vatapi’s brother) in order to make meal of the person who ate the goat. Once the victim eats the goat meat, Ilvala calls out to Vatapi who, piercing the stomach of the victim, comes out and both have a meal of the corpse. But cow meat was forbidden because KamaDhenu (the holy cow of demi-gods) was considered the mother of all the cows and this is the reason why cows are looked upon as sacred. But this meat eating/drinking alcohol was forbidden to Brahmins because of the curse from Shukracharya, the guru of Rakshasas.
Rama – mutilating women :-
Rama, as part of protecting the Vishwamithra’s yajna, killed Thataki’s sons but spared the life of Thataki on the only ground that the rakshi was a lady. He just gave a blow with his arrow to her and she fell in the sea. Shoorpanakha was the dear-sister of Ravana. In the aranya kanda, when Rama was with Sita and Lakshmana in the hermitage, Shoorpanakha carried away by the handsome Rama cherishes to marry him by taking the form of a beatiful woman and she forces him. Rama denies her and says to her to go to Lakshmana and being denied by him too she got vexed with her pleading she turns cruel and with her original rakshasi form, and tries to malign Sita. Lakshmana pulls her out and as they shouldnot kill a lady, he cuts the nose of Shoorpi and sends her back. And this is the begining of actual Ramayana. Shoorpi goes to her bro Ravana wailing how he was illtreated by Rama also goes to the extent of saying Sita to be most charming and beutiful girl and Ravana’s interest grows in Sita.
To Continue….
November 9th, 2008 at 7:53 am
IllTalk about Women :-
Yes Sister. I do agree with you in this context. Depriving woman of education and considering them to be of no knowledge is definitely a mistake. But Whore-talk about woman will not be found in the original Ramayana/Mahabhratha/Vedas. These were later addedon. Even Chankya says the same. At that time they followed ManuSmrti. But one thing here is, in Hindu literature we have Srthis(Vedas) and Smrtis. Smritis have tobe changed in line with time and prevailing conditions of the society and shritis dont need that because they hold the truth which is ultimate and true everywhere. Applying ManuSmrti everywhere is definitely wrong. Also, there was a misconception that all the misdeeds happen because of woman’s involvement only and many in the medieval period quote Mandara/Draupadi/Sita for all the starting of the epics/great wars.
But the things that are posted here about the Vedas are wrong … Vedas are about the spiritual knowledge and not about the materialistic world.
Rama – Sambuka :-
Here one thing I want to say is Valmiki himself is a Chandala (please donot misinterpret my meaning of Chandala here), a decoit. How come he came to know the Vedas? How come he was considered a Brahmin? So, if a Chandala can become a brahmin why not Sambuka, who should have been there at the time of Valmiki himself (if Ramayana is not only a story) was slained by Rama. If he did so, Would Valmiki considered him as his ideal personality he was in search of? So, the conclusion should be obvious. It is a cook-up to uphold the medieval Brahmin wand.
Krsna – Stealing clothes of gopis:-
.
When Krsna enters his teens, he becomes a talk among the gopis – about his grace, beauty and every unmarried gopi of the village used to assume him as her own husband. They, while taking bath in the river, pray to
Goddess Kathyayani to give them the boon of having Krsna as her husband. This Krsna comes to know and once they were bathing (leaving their clothes on the river bank), he collects them and climbs a tree there. When the gopis realize this, they were filled with shame and were unable to come out of the river. Krsna smiles at them and tells them that he knows what is their prayer to the mother Goddess. Overcome with shyness, the gopis request for their clothes. But Krsna insists that they have to come out of their own and take them from his hand. Then he plays flute and the gopis realise that they were none other than the rishis who sought Visnu to marry them. The story behind this from the same purana/ also told in Visnu purana is that – long ago seers were there in Himalayas doing tapas. One day when they were bathing in Ganga, a long beautiful hair was found and the rishis thought that it belongs to a very beautiful woman and all of them wanted to marry her, took vows so and went upstream. But there stands Visnu smiling and says to them that they haven’t overcome their materialistic feeling and that they have to be his true devotees to attain moksha. Now the seers eyes balzed with awe when they saw him and forgot all about their tapas. They, with one tone, requested/pleaded to marry them and entertain them with his child-like playful activities. He told them that their desire will be fulfilled in Krsna avatar and the gopis are none other than the seers whom Krsna married. Now I think, there will not be any doubt on why there were 16108 wives for Krsna
Pandu – Kunti :-
Pandu told Kunti to pray to Vayu/Surya/Yama and other dieties to beget sons as Kunti was given a boon by Vishwamithra for her hospitality in treating him when she was unmarried. Before married to Pandu raja, Kunti tries the boon with Sun God and begets Karna, whom she leaves to his fate because of the fear of blemish to their lineage and ancestors. She was not offered to a brahmin
Satyawathi – queens of Vichitrvirya :-
Satyawathi (a fisherman’s daughter) was married by Shantanu. They had two sons named Chitrangada and Vichitravirya. Chintrangada dies very early and Vichitravirya was married to Amba,Ambika and Ambalika. But soon after marriage he too dies and because Bhishma has already taken the vow is celibacy he cannot marry others and thus the lineage of Shantanu was coming to a halt. In order to avoid this, Satyawathi asks Vysampayana (aka VedaVyasa) who is her son (by sage Parashara’s boon) to beget sons to sustain the lineage. Thus were the Dhrthrashtra, Pandu and Vidura were born.
My point here is not to tell you the puranas/epics. But an advice to study them on your own instead of looking for something solely on the internet. You should be having an idea of the story of Anasuya, Ganesha’s and Hanuman’s birth. Correct? If you look in the internet you get lots of filth on those creatures.
I am not denying that the puranas all contain what we consider holy, without any reference to what we consider utter nonsense. There are … but these are mere stories. Aren’t they?
The atrocities against any human (even one) are condemnable and should be severely punished, but just to talk against those we need not throw filth or burn-down our own house. Correct? Please do think of it. (Here I dont require anybody’s comments except Sheetal Kamat). I think you are the same person who is posting your views under the name of Sheetal on the page replies-to-abuses-of-satyadarshini.
I again want to believe in truth told in Vedas/Gita that caste is based on one’s job and not by his birth (I Completely agree with ShyamBhatt in this regard, as I too ’see’ the same thing.(Here too I dont require anybody’s comments except Sheetal Kamat)
November 9th, 2008 at 9:51 am
POOR VAMSI YOU ARE TOO NICE AGUY! YOUR SISTER SHEETAL
IS LYING ABOUT HER NAME SHE IS ACTUALLY “SHIRLEY”,”SOPHIA”,”SARAH” ETC..
VAMSI YOUR ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN THE ACTUAL MAHABHARAT,RAMAYANA AND BHAGAVD GITA TO SOMBODY
WHO HAS ONLY HATRED AND NOTHING ELSE IN THIER BRAIN IS FUTILE THEIR MIND IS NOT AN OPEN ONE TO ANALYSE THE GREATNESS OF HINDUISM , HINDU PHILOSOPHY AND TO REACH THE GOD WITHIN THEM.
THEIR MIND IS TRAPPED IN JESUS AND NOTHING ELSE BUT HATRED FOR HINDUISM.
CAN THESE PEOPLE USE THE SAME LANGUAGE AND TACTICS AGIANST MUSLIMS?
November 9th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Hari , You must be naive and ignorant to think there are no missionaries in africa. A major part of Africans are already christians and as a matter of fact the conservative Anglican church of USA is strengthening ties with African chrurches becaus ethey cannot take American liberalism anymore. And of course they go throgh a lot of trouble as yu can envision too.. Other than the illnesses and less than comfortable life and hatred from Muslims who are also colonizing Africa…
BTW why don’t ISKON people go to Africa ? Ha hA ha — you guys are a big joke.
November 9th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
‘Government attitude will end Vaishnavite culture’
By our Staff Reporter
GUWAHATI, Nov 8: The Asom Xatra Mahasabha’s youth wing –– Samanwita Yuva Tirtha –– today voiced its protest against the arrival of Christian missionaries from Nagaland in the riverine island of Majuli, which is also the seat of Vaishnavite culture. The missionaries are entering the State with the support of a Nagaland group –– Chakesang.
Addressing mediapersons at a press meet in the city today, Sanmawita Yuva Tirtha general secretary Dibyojyoti Saikia today demanded immediate eviction of the missionaries and said that the lackadaisical attitude of the government will soon result in the extinction of Vaishnavite culture in the State.
It should be noted that Christian missionaries had made inroads into Majuli earlier as well. The Government had evicted the group after facing vehement protests from social and youth organizations of the island. The youth wing of the Asom Xatra Xabha today alleged that the missionaries were able to come back since the government had not taken the issue seriously.
Accusing the government of protecting the missionaries for vote bank politics, Saikia said, “A lot of Bangladeshis had also encroached upon the Xatra land of Majuli. Now Christian missionaries are also following suit. Even after facing so much protests, the Government has been unable to evict the illegal Bangladeshi immigrants. If the government does not change its attitude, it won’t be able to evict the missionaries as well.” He further added, “If this continues, Vaishnavite culture is bound to become extinct.”
http://www.sentinelassam.com/
The Sentinel, Guwahati, 9 Nov 2008
=====
Why we need Bajrangdal type organizations? Who else will protect Hindus and Hindu interests. Govts at centre openly promote chrsitian missionaries by rewarding them national awards (Australian missioanry terrorist was given Padma Shri award for converting HIndus into chrsitianity in Orissa), printing chrsitian Cross on rupess, christian haj subsidy, three days mourning for death of pope or sope, and list goes on.
After transforming Nagaland for Christ, now these missionary terrorists started crusade to make Asom for christ or whole NE for christ. Asom Congress govt is doing all as per instructions from Congress party chief, who is an agressive anti-Hindu chrsitian missionary herself (under covert mask).
Hindus need to unite, act and save their dharma, cutlure, brethens and the nation. Christian missionary terrorists aggressive invasions must be met by more stronger retaliaiton actions. Tit-for-tat must be the policy. Don’t bother anti-hindu sickular forces hue and cry.
—-
November 10th, 2008 at 12:58 am
Science without doubt had disproved Christian beliefs. There is no 2 way to think about that notion. Either you can believe in Science and stop being a Christian. The earlier Christians had murdered numerous scientists and philosophers when there observations had become a stumble block in the growth of Christianity, a classic example can be seen with the burning alive of Giordano Bruno. Galelio’s case is already mentioned here.
“Behold in the candle borne by this Chandler, to whom I give birth, that which shall clarify certain shadows of ideas … I need not instruct you of my belief. Time gives all and takes all away; everything changes but nothing perishes. One only is immutable, eternal and ever endures, one and the same with itself. With this philosophy my spirit grows, my mind expands. Whereof, however obscure the night may be, I await the daybreak, and they who dwell in day look for night … Rejoice therefore, and keep whole, if you can, and return love for love.”
Thus spake Giordano Bruno and no wonder he was burned alive, because of the very mention of Spirit. Even after 2000 years of existence Christianity is yet to come into terms with Spiritual life. It’s all about Material benefits that it talks about, even after death a fictitious Heaven and Hell. This cannot be digested by any sane person who uses his brain and lives in the twentieth century.
Jesus to me is definitely not the one that the church and the evangelists and TV ministries propagate, but a spiritual person who could have visited this country India during his lifetime and elated himself Spiritually. But if not from India there is no hope for a re invention of this religion which is fading in the west. Jesus can definitely fit into the Indian ethos and I’m sure no Hindus will have a problem with that. For that increasing the number of Christians by maligning a system that flourished without any blood shed in this land for more than 10,000 years is contemptible. Half of the history of this land is distorted and the other half is being concealed by vested interests for hundreds of years. I have not looked outside or listened to anyone to find and realize My Jesus, rather I looked inside me, the way by which Sanathana Dharma, the eternal religion originated from this holy land. With this method, I have no problem in treating Sree Ram or Sri Krishna with equal reverence. So one has to come to a conclusion, that Jesus never existed as portrayed by the numerous sects claim or he was a totally different person who had no ambition to build a religion in his name.
It would be better if we could have continued this very important discussion without throwing mud on each other….
November 10th, 2008 at 1:22 am
bharatmohan
November 9th, 2008 at 9:51 am
“POOR VAMSI YOU ARE TOO NICE AGUY! YOUR SISTER SHEETAL
IS LYING ABOUT HER NAME SHE IS ACTUALLY “SHIRLEY”,”SOPHIA”,”SARAH” ETC..
VAMSI YOUR ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN THE ACTUAL MAHABHARAT,RAMAYANA AND BHAGAVD GITA TO SOMBODY
WHO HAS ONLY HATRED AND NOTHING ELSE IN THIER BRAIN IS FUTILE THEIR MIND IS NOT AN OPEN ONE TO ANALYSE THE GREATNESS OF HINDUISM , HINDU PHILOSOPHY AND TO REACH THE GOD WITHIN THEM”
REALITY: Welcome to the world of reality mr.bharatmohanji. Even though I need not give explanation to every tom dick and harry about my faith i would like to do so because here are few fanatics who want every one to believe the notion that those who oppose thier hatred policy are non hindus..Two things i would like to clear. 1st one being i am a hindu and second one is that i dont hate hindus. Dont take self-made conclusions. I am proud of my faith and my country and its secular credentials vested in the constitution. Those who hate our constitution and take law into their own hands and do heinus crimes against humanity such as rape ,murders and burning people alive are desh-drohis and they should be kicked out of our country. My contention is to expose those fanatics by their hatred campain by by attacking other faiths where as we ourselves are in shambles as far as morality is concerned.
November 10th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Sister Abhaya of Kerala was raped, killed and left inside the well in a Seminary when she was just 21 years old. Even after so many years the culprits are not nailed. As far as the alleged rape in Orissa the nun and the father who claimed this is yet to appear before the court with proof. Why are the absconding? If they stand by what the claimed let them go to court and the the law will take it’s course. It’s an irony that the Christian pastors and priests worldwide are being caught red handed for rape, sexual molestations and pedophilia on a daily basis and here they are complaining. Justice should be given to all irrespective of religion or caste. And the very secular people who shout from every roof that they are the protectors of minority forgets this conveniently.
November 10th, 2008 at 1:39 am
shyam bhat
November 9th, 2008 at 3:35 am
@SHEETAL…………..CASTE SYSTEM WAS ON THE BASIS OF PERSONS DEEDS NOT BY BIRTH…………..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the biggest farce these sanghparivar wants to profess and sad that you are becoming its culprit. origin may be so. But what did these brahmins do?.
Would they allow a shudra to cross the same lane?. according to them dirty people are meant to do dirty jobs and they are not pure to enter not just temples but to even cross the path where these brahmins supposed to go.
November 10th, 2008 at 1:45 am
The guys who made major fuzz about The Last temptation and The Da Vinci Code has no moral right to accuse the Hindus after releasing a book called Satya Darshini which is the outcome of perverted mental illness and fundamentalism of Christianity for retaliating. When the Christian minds bled after the release of The Last Temptation and Da Vincci code, how do you expect the Hindus who are by and large peace loving to sit idle?
There are major conspiracies that need to be unveiled which is carried out by the present government in center merely to appease the minorities. The are turning a blind eye on thousands of citizens being killed in Bomb Blasts and they purely want to nail down Hindus by false propaganda and subverted truths. All I can urge the public is without fail CAST YOUR VOTE for a mighty India and don’t CASTE YOUR VOTE this time.
November 10th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Decent articulation by Abraham, so finally it’s proved that real Christians aren’t extinct. My well wishes…
November 10th, 2008 at 1:56 am
Coward pastors/evangelists acting like ostrich…They think they can BURY the truths with Kamats, Bhats and other Hindu names. They are standing on quick sand. Truth can’t be subverted all the time. It will come out in open one day…till then live in your fantasy world…
November 10th, 2008 at 2:24 am
Vamsi
November 9th, 2008 at 7:53 am
IllTalk about Women :-
Yes Sister. I do agree with you in this context. Depriving woman of education and considering them to be of no knowledge is definitely a mistake. But Whore-talk about woman will not be found in the original Ramayana/Mahabhratha/Vedas. These were later addedon. Even Chankya says the same. At that time they followed ManuSmrti. But one thing here is, in Hindu literature we have Srthis(Vedas) and Smrtis. Smritis have tobe changed in line with time and prevailing conditions of the society and shritis dont need that because they hold the truth which is ultimate and true everywhere. Applying ManuSmrti everywhere is definitely wrong. Also, there was a misconception that all the misdeeds happen because of woman’s involvement only and many in the medieval period quote Mandara/Draupadi/Sita for all the starting of the epics/great wars.
ANSWER: I do agree that i have used manusmriti quotes.
I have done it because if we succomb to these hate-other sect poicies of fanatics the loser will be our hinduism. My dictom is to give taste of their own medicine to these rowdies so that by hurting others they are not fighting our faith but are destroying it.
VAMSI -”But the things that are posted here about the Vedas are wrong … Vedas are about the spiritual knowledge and not about the materialistic world.”
Answer: But using this spiritual knowledge to integrate and propagate our faith lke ramkrishna mission is required and egoistic propagation by acts of cowardice by attacking churches, burning people alive are cancer of our faith and we need to get rid of this at the earliest.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:44 am
VAMSI
Rama – Sambuka :-
“Here one thing I want to say is Valmiki himself is a Chandala (please donot misinterpret my meaning of Chandala here), a decoit. How come he came to know the Vedas? How come he was considered a Brahmin? So, if a Chandala can become a brahmin why not Sambuka, who should have been there at the time of Valmiki himself (if Ramayana is not only a story) was slained by Rama. If he did so, Would Valmiki considered him as his ideal personality he was in search of? So, the conclusion should be obvious. It is a cook-up to uphold the medieval Brahmin wand”.
Answer:
The first and foremost we hear about shambuka is in uttara kanda of ramayan which is the basis for other versions about him.After Lord Rama returns to Ayodhya and is crowned the king of Ayodhya, the death of a child occurs in the kingdom He is told that calamities such as this occur when Dharma is not followed in a kingdom. Rama tries to find out the reason and comes to know that a person of the Shudra jati, called Shambuka is performing penance which he is not supposed to do according to the Varna system of rules prevailing in that period. He is executed, by beheading, personally by Ram.
Reality:. This shows that Ram himself did not believe in job (deed) based caste-system which some of you seem to beieve but of caste -system based on birth. Not just that it also envisages the harshest punishment to those who go against this syestem.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:55 am
What is a church after all? It’s a mere building. If any Christians feel sad when such a building is collapsed, think about the Hindus who lost about 3000 temples destroyed either by Arabs or Christians. Hindus became poor only because they had accumulated all their wealth in these temples which was ruthlessly looted by the British and Arabs. And this same money is utilized for converting Hindus to Christianity. One should come to the assumption that then it’s got something else to do with than propagating a religion. There is no other country than this one in this world where all kind of viewpoints were openly welcomed. Exploiting that in the name of anything is not a decent act.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:56 am
@Vamsi:
The cook up story is the one which negated the that valmiki didnot write it at all. It is also true that Sri Rama himself listened to the story of the Ramayana’ and was pleased. Which should bring enlightenment to you right?
November 10th, 2008 at 2:57 am
We have a saint here at the blog. Saint Sheetal….
November 10th, 2008 at 3:01 am
Cherian Nair? What kind of a name is that?
November 10th, 2008 at 3:07 am
Yeah dude, got a good deal from some sect among the Christians. I was in dire need of some dough and had to sell my soul for getting my things done. The evangelists will offer anything you ask for if you convert. It’s like a money chain. Now for every converts I’ll get a decent amount of money. Well, I’m yet to open my account…For trying to convert someone too, I’ll be rewarded. But I can’t tell more about that…It’s business dude…
November 10th, 2008 at 3:12 am
Vamsi@
Krsna – Stealing clothes of gopis:-
KRISHNA SEDUCES THE GOPIS
gopis: cow-herd girls; milk-maids; village girls; or better known as Lord Krishna’s girlfriends.
Krishna steals the clothes of the gopis and seduces them as recorded in the Srimad Bhagavatam:
“In the first month of winter, the girls of Nanda’s village performed a certain vow to the goddess Katyayani (Durga). They ate rice cooked with clarified butter; they bathed in the water of the Kalindi (Yamuna) river at sunrise; they made an image of the goddess out of sand and worshipped it with fragrant perfumes and garlands, with offerings and incense and lamps, and with bouquets of flowers, fresh sprigs of leaves, fruits, and rice. And they prayed: ‘Goddess Katyayani, great mistress of yoga, empress of great deluding magic, make the son of the cow-herd Nanda my husband. I bow to you.’ Saying this prayer, the girls would worship her, and having set their hearts on Krsna, the girls performed this vow for a month; they worshipped Bhadrakali (Durga) so that the son of Nanda (Krsna) would be their husband. Arising at dawn, calling one another by name, they would join hands and go to bathe in the Kalindi every day, singing loudly about Krsna as they went. One day, when they had gone to the river and taken off their clothes on the bank as usual, they were playing joyfully in the water, singing about Krsna. The lord Krsna, lord of all masters of yoga, came there with his friends of the same age in order to grant them the object of their rites. He took their clothes and quickly climbed a Nipa tree, and laughing with the laughing boys he told what the joke was: ‘Girls, let each one of you come here and take her own clothes as she wishes. I promise you, this is no jest, for you have been exhausted by your vows. I have never before told an untruth, and these boys know this. Slender-waisted ones, come one by one or all together and take your clothes.’ When the cow-herd girls saw what his game was, they were overwhelmed with love, but they looked at one another in shame, and they smiled, but they did not come out. Flustered and embarrassed by Govinda’s (Krsna’s) words and by his jest, they sank down up to their necks in the icy water, and, shivering, they said to him, ‘You should not have played such a wicked trick. We know you as our beloved, son of the cow-herd Nanda, the pride of the village. Give us our clothes, for we are trembling. O darkly handsome one, we are your slaves and will do as you command, but you know dharma: give us our clothes or we will tell your father, the chieftain.’ The lord said to them, ‘If you are my slaves and will do as I command, then come here and take back your clothes, O brightly smiling ones.’ Then all the girls, shivering and smarting with cold, came out of the water, covering their crotches with their hands. The lord was pleased and gratified by their chaste actions, and he looked at them and placed their clothes on his shoulder and smiled and said, ‘Since you swam in the water without clothes while you were under a vow, this was an insult to the divinity (to Varuna, god of the waters). Therefore you must fold your hands and place them on your heads and bow low in expiation of your sin, and then you may take your clothes.’ When the village girls heard what the infallible one said, they thought that bathing naked had been a violation of their vows, and they bowed down to Krsna, the very embodiment of all their rituals, who had thus fulfilled their desires and wiped out their disgrace and sin. Then the lord, the son of Devaki, gave their clothes to them, for he felt pity when he saw them bowed down in this way and he was satisfied with them. Though they were greatly deceived and robbed of their modesty, though they were mocked and treated like toys and stripped of their clothes, yet they held no grudge against him, for they were happy to be together with their beloved. Rejoicing in the closeness of their lover, they put on their clothes; their bashful glances, in the thrall of their hearts, did not move from him. Knowing that the girls had taken a vow because they desired to touch his feet, the lord with a rope around his waist said to the girls, ‘Good ladies, I know that your desire is to worship me. I rejoice in this vow, which deserves to be fulfilled. The desire of those whose hearts have been placed in me does not give rise to further desire, just as seed corn that has been boiled or fried does not give rise to seed. You have achieved your aim. Now, girls, go back to the village and you will enjoy your nights with me, for it was for this that you fine ladies undertook your vow and worship.’ When the girls heard this from Krsna, they had obtained what they desired; and, meditating upon his lotus feet, they forced themselves to go away from him to the village.” — Srimad Bhagavatam 10:22:1-28. Compare: Brahmavaivarta Purana 1:27; Brhaddharma Purana 3:17.
Answer: That explains better right?.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:16 am
MYTHS, DECIET AND LIES VIOLENCE OF CHRISTIANITY!
SIMILIARITIES B/N CHRISTIANITY AND A VULTURE ARE THEY BOTH FEED ON “SICK”,”WEAK “AND “VULNERABLE”.
CHRISTIANS CLAIM USE THEY MESSAGE OF “PEACE, LOVE AND COMPASSION” TO PROPAGATE THEIR
RELIGION AND THE IRONY IS THEY USE THE EXACTLY OPPOSITE METHODS THEY USE.
EARTHQUAKES/TSUNAMI/FLOODS : EVERREADY CHRISTIAN MISSIONARIES WILL BE THERE TO
PROPAGATE THEIR FAITH MORE THAN GIVING HELP TO THE NEEDY ,JUST LIKE VULTURES.
AND JUST COMPARE WITH HINDU ORGANISTIONS THEY HAVE PROVIDED HOUSES
, BOATS AND GOT THE ORPHANS EDUCATED OR MARRIED. FOR EX.. SHRI MATA AMRITANANDAMAYA HAS DONE YEOMAN SERVICE FOR THE TSUNAMI AFFECTED PEOPLE of Tamil nadu.
AND WHO CAN FORGET SRI SAI BABA’S FREE AND EXCELLENT MEDICAL CARE TO THE POOR PEOPLE WITH HEART AND OTHER DISEASES WHICH WOULD HAVE COSTED LAKHS OF RUPEES and who would have died otherwise.
AND FINALLY LOOK AT THE MONEY THE CHRISTIANS HOSPITALS MAKE EVEN AFTER GETTING FREE LAND AND AID FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
HISTORY OF CHRISTIAN VIOLENCE: FIRST THE WHITE MISSIONARIES ENTERED THE CONTINENTS OF NORTH AND SOUTH AMERICA TO SPREAD THEIR FAITH AND MASSACRED MILLIONS OF RED- INDIAN NATIVES AND DID FORCIBLE CONVERSIONS AND NOW THEY ARE RULING OVER THEM AND SIMILIARLY
WHITES IN AUSTRALIA ARE RULING OVER THE ABORGINES.
CASTE SYSTEM: CHRISTIANS IN INDIA STILL FOLLOW EXTENSIVE CASTE SYSTEM IN KERALA AND OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY AND IN BANGALORE’S PATRICK CHURCH “HIGH CASTE”MANGLOREAN CHRISTIANS DO NOT ALLOW “LOW CASTE” AND NEO-CONVERTS .AND FOR THESE NEO CONVERTS
AND LOW CASTE CHRISTIANS THEY HAVE A ST.MARY CHURCH AT SHIVAJI NAGAR. AND THE SAME IN KERALA THE LOW CASTE’S HAVE SEPARATE CHURCHES FOR PRAYER AND THEIR ENTRY IS RESTICTED.
AS YOU ARE AWARE CHRISTIANS PRIDE IN SAYING ST.THOMAS BROUGHT THEIR FAITH TO KERALA
2000YRS BACK AND CHRISTIANS IN KERALA ARE AS OLD.
ANOTHER PROOF OF CHRISTIAN “WHITE LIE” ABOUT THEIR FAITH, CASTE –SYSTEM IS STILL PREVALENT
AMONG CHRISTIANS CONTRARY TO THEIR PROPAGANDA OF A CASTE-LESS CHRISTIANS.
AND THE RECENT KANDAMAL VIOLENCE IS ALSO RELATED TO CHRISTIANS
TAKING THE TWIN BENEFITS OF RESERVATION AND “GOODIES FROM MISSIONARIES FOR
THEIR CONVERSION TO CHRISTIANITY “ AND THE ARCH-BISHOP OF ORISSA HAS BEEN WORKING
HARD TO GET RESERVATION FOR THESE CONVERTS ON THEIR BASED ON THEIR CASTE.
NOTE: WHAT EVER I HAVE POSTED ARE TRUE AND CAN BE INVESTIGATED.
DOWRY: THE ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS OF KERALA ARE AMONG THE” HIGHEST DOWRY”TAKERS/GIVERS.
SOME OF THESE POOR CHRISTIANS WHO CANNOT AFFORD DOWRY GIVE THEIR DAUGHTERS
TO THE CHURCH WERE THEY BECOME NUN S (IE..FORCED TO CELIBICY) AGAINST THEIR WISHES AND ALSO AGAINST NATURE HERE AGAIN I RESPECT CELIBACY WITH CONVICTION BUT NOT CELIBACY DUE POVERTY.
I can see the enthusiasm of these neo-converts on their new faith
But let me warn them they have lost their for a few pennies or
Perceived wrong freedom from Hinduism which is truly liberal
And intellectual.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:17 am
@Vamsi,
.
Now I think, there will not be any doubt on why there were 16108 wives for Krsna
KRISHNA’S 16,000 WIVES & DESTRUCTION OF HIS OWN DESCENDANTS
Krishna married and had sex with 16,000 wives in Dvaraka, and with so many descendants from so many wives, the earth as a result had become severely overpopulated. Krishna then had no choice but to annihilate his own family for weighing down the earth, as shown below in the quote from the Srimad Bhagavatam:
“Krsna became a householder (head of a household) in Dvaraka and married many wives, and had many sons and grandsons. In the race of the Yadus, no one was poor; everyone had many children, lived a long life, and respected Brahmins. But they were so numerous that one could not count them even in a hundred years. The terrible demons who had been slain in the battle of the gods and demons were born among men, and so at the command of Visnu the gods became incarnate in the race of Yadus to repress the demons…. When Krsna had killed the demons, and thus relieved the burden of the earth, he thought, ‘The earth is still overburdened by the unbearably burdensome race of the Yadus. No one else can overcome them, since they are under my protection.’ … Deluded by Krsna’s power of delusion, and cursed by the Brahmins, they were all destroyed, and when his entire family had been destroyed, Krsna said, ‘The burden has been removed.’ ” — Srimad Bhagavatam 10:90:27-44; 11:1:1-4; 11:30:1-25. [O'Flaherty, Wendy D. The Origins of Evil in Hindu Mythology. Pub.: University of California Press. ISBN 0-520-04098-8. p.267].
Krishna’s marriage to 16,000 wives and the destruction of his descendants (the Yadavas) is also recorded in the Linga Purana:
“One of Krsna’s wives asked Krsna to give her a son equal to the lord of the gods. Krsna performed asceticism for Siva, who granted him a son, Samba. Krsna took sixteen thousand maidens for his pleasure, and then, under the pretext of the Brahmins’ curse, he destroyed his own family and lived in Prabhasa. After living for a hundred and one years in Dvaraka, where he had removed the sorrow of old age, he made the curse of the sages come true.” — Linga Purana 1:69:71, 82-84.
Answer:Gopis or village girls, who dreamed of being wives or no but krishna enjoyed life with each one of them was my point.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:20 am
Abraham, how can you prove that 3000 temples were destroyed? I know there are many shameful events occurred in the rage to spread Christianity, but is your claim true? I know the famous Kapleeswara temple in Chennai where now there is a church in the name of that fictitious saint Thomas, was destroyed by Christians, which is now proved and the the matter is in court. Are there any other temples destroyed? I am doing a thesis on the growth of Christianity in India and the method by which the Christian population had risen to 6.8% of the total Indian population. Any help in this regard will be appreciated.
November 10th, 2008 at 6:35 am
shyam bhat
November 9th, 2008 at 3:17 am
@SHEETAL …HOW VIVEKANANDA IS A MISSIONARY?????????HE NEVER FORCED ANY PEOPLE FROM OTHER RELIGION TO COME TO HINDUISM
Again you have been trapped in the vicious sangh parivar doctrine that missionaries are forcefully converting. It is a BIG LIE propagated by these organizations because they cannot counter them in their selfless service and these want their blood because they are working for the upliftment of poor and brahmins boiling with anger is nothing new because centuries after centuries they were the slaves . have you heard of ramakrishna mission of which swami vivekanada is a missionary who went to America with his mission to spread our faith in that country.
November 10th, 2008 at 6:52 am
@Vamsi
birth of ram.
Anwer: Let us examin it illustratively.Soon Dasarath got married to Kausalya. Dasarath became the King of Kosala and continued in the line of just and noble rule of his predecessors. Kosala was always prosperous due to scientific advancements made by Rishis combined with the fact that Dasarath was a just ruler.
As Dasarath and Kausalya did not have any child for some time, Dasarath married Sumitra. Polygamy was an accepted practice, as an exception rather than as a rule to ordinary men, while for the Rulers it was a necessity.
Dasarath’s marriage did not stop with Sumitra. Sumitra also could not bear any child. Dasarath married for the third time, the princess of Kekeya. Kekeya was ruled by Asvapati, whose daughter Kaikeyi was both bold and beautiful. She was also adamant.
Kaikeyi was the perfect daughter of her mother. Kaikeyi’s mother had left her daughter and her husband Asvapati, when Kaikeyi was young. Once, when Asvapati and Kaikeyi’s mother were alone, Asvapati laughed unto himself. Kaikeyi’s mother thought Asvapati was mocking at her for some reason and demanded the explanation for his laughter. Asvapati refused to explain his laughter and Kaikeyi’s mother left him and her kid for her parent’s place, never to return.
Kaikeyi was brought up by a maid servant called Mandhira. Kaikeyi treated Mandhira as her mother.
During the marriage of Kaikeyi to Dasarath, Mandira had her reservations on the marriage, as Kaikeyi’s son will not be the future ruler of Kosala. And she did not want Kaikeyi, who is beautiful and brave to be married in such a place.
Since Dasarath was marrying Kaikeyi primarily for progeny and neither Kausalya nor Sumithra had children, Mandira consoled herself that Kaikeyi’s son will be the future king of Kosala.
*************
Kaikeyi became the favorite queen of Dasrath. She being the youngest of the queens, Dasarath showered lot of love and special affection on her.
Soon Kaikeyi started accompanying Dasarath even during his hunting sessions. She became an expert in driving chariots, of which Dasarath himself was an expert.
Once Dasarath had to go on war against Sambara who was also known as Timi-dwhaja (emblem of Shark in the flag). Sambara’s kingdom extended upto the city of Vaijayanta as its northern most point. This city was located south of the Dandaka forests. The Dandaka forests were located in far south of Kosala.
Sambara and his men were a great source of trouble for the Rishis who carried out their work in the Dandaka forests. They killed the Rishis and impeded the work being carried out by them. Sambara and his men were afraid of the work carried out by the Rishis, as they did not understand them. They viewed these Rishis as invading forces of the northern rulers and wanted to halt their expansion towards south.
Over a period the local kinsmen of Dasarath had no choice but to challenge Sambara and his men in a battle in the city of Vaijayanta itself. Otherwise, the attacks of his men on Rishis were becoming unstoppable.
In the ensuing battle, Sambara performed several hundreds of conjuring tricks through which he nearly defeated the invading army. His men carried out their attacks at lightning speed and vanished before their attack could be repulsed.
Dasarath took kaikeyi along with him in his Chariot into the war. Dasarath showered his sharp arrows at his opponents from the chariot. But the speed at which the enemies attacked and withdrew confused Dasarath and his forces.
As the war progressed, Dasarath’s charioteer was killed and Kaikeyi took up the reins of the chariot bravely. Weapons flew in from all directions. Dasarath’s bow got struck and it fell down. Another weapon struck his body armor and he fell unconscious.
Kaikeyi bravely took him through the battlefield skillfully avoiding danger to the unconscious Dasarath as well as herself. She came out of the battlefield and helped Dasarath to regain consciousness.
She drove Dasarath back to battlefield. This time, Dasarath and Kaikeyi were better experienced in the way their enemy fights, as they mapped their strategy well. Soon Dasarath became victorious in the war.
*********
Dasarath’s affection on Kaikey grew leaps and bounds after this incident. He asked Kaikeyi to ask for two wishes from him. He granted one wish for the bravery in saving his life, another for her readiness to lay down her life for him.
Kaikeyi was more than happy at this. But she did not desire anything specific as a wish. She told Dasarath “O great king. I have all my wishes satisfied, when you are with me always. But since you have granted me two wishes, and the Shastra’s ask specifically not to refuse the gift of a King, I accept them. But I will use them, when I need it”.
“So be it..” – said Dasarath.
Dasarath got a new charioteer, Sumantra, who became his confidante and eventually got raised to the position of a minister. Much like the car drivers of powerful politicians who end up becoming MLA’s and ministers.
********
A wish is like a contract of these days. Even today, the law is clear that if there is no consideration, there is no contract. In this case, the consideration was kaikeyi’s courageous act and response was the wishes that Dasarath promised.
In those days (even in these days), Indians were not good at documentation in terms of writing. All their knowledge went from one human brain to another. The stress on storage of information or knowledge was more on the brain rather than on manuals.
In this scenario, human words, particularly those that of kings were treated like contracts that cannot be repudiated later. It was not unusual for people, even in ordinary sections of society, to treat their spoken words as sacred and give up their life, if they are not able to honor it.
Hence for a King, who represents all his people, to enter into an open ended contract, which could affect the future of people who believe in him was totally wrong. But Dasarath due to his habit of haste and jumping into conclusion, got into an open ended contract with Kaikeyi.
*******
Several years rolled. None of Dasarath’s queens had any children. Dasarath got extremely anxious and consulted his ministers and sages.
Dhristi, Jayantha, Vijaya, Suraashtra, Raashtravardhana, Akopa, Dharmapaala were the seven ministers of Dasarath. Sumantra was the eighth minister who was also the charioteer of Dasarath.
Suyajna, Jabaali, Kaashyapa, Gautama, Maarkandeya, Deerghaayu, and Kaatyayana were the scholarly Brahmans adoring the court of Dasarath. Vasishta and Vamadeva were his scientific advisors amongst whom Vasishta was the Principal Scientific Advisor.
Dasarath asked the scholarly Brahmans of his court about the solution and asked them if asvamedha yajna could help. The Brahmans agreed with his idea and said that it can be carried out in the banks of River Sarayu. They said they will start preparing the ritual ground for it, if Vasishta’s nod is got.
After they left, Dasarath turned to Sumantra, his charioteer and trusted lieutenant. Dasarath felt that the problem was not that of the power of the king, but the issue of progeny, which might need a different solution. His was a more personal problem than what he could share with these educated Brahmans.
What Dasarath could not discuss with the Brahmans, he could discuss with his personal charioteer and minister Sumantra.
After a long thought, Sumantra suggested to use the services of RishyaSringa, a sage considered the most potent and virile of the sages.
RishyaSringa was a grandson of Sage Kashyapa and son of Sage Vibandhaka. He was also the son-in-law of the King of Anga, Romapada, through his marriage with Shanta the daughter of Romapada
November 10th, 2008 at 7:06 am
@Vamsi
saraswati purana
The references i took from are
1. Aitareya Brahmana.III.33
2. Satapatha Brahmana.I.7.4.1ff; XIV, 4.2.1ff;
3. Matsya Purana.III.32 ff;
4. Bhagavata Purana.III.12.28ff.
” Brahma is who one of the 3 main gods – Trimurti – of the our pantheon. He being the creator of the universe and Sarasvati, who became the wife of her own father(daughter of brahma himself), was the incest story i was talking about. There are 2 stories about her birth in the `Saraswati Purana’. One is that Brahma created his beautiful daughter Saraswati direct from his `vital strength’ or seminal fluid. The other is that Brahma used to collect his semen in a pot whenever he masturbated fixing his carnal eyes on the celestial beauty Urvasi. Brahma’s semen in the pot gave birth to the sage Agastya, and Agastya in turn gave birth to Saraswati. Thus, Saraswati had no mother.
” This daughter or grand-daughter of Brahma is the Hindu goddess of learning. When Brahma saw the beauty of Saraswati he became amorous. To escape from her father’s passionate approach Saraswati ran to the lands in all four directions, but she could not escape from her father. She succumbed to Brahma’s wish. Brahma and his daughter Saraswati lived as husband and wife indulging in incest for 100 years. They had a son Swayambhumaru and a daughter Satarupa. THrough the incest of Brahma’s son and daughter Brahma got two grandsons and two grand-daughters.”
November 10th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Vamsi,
Brahma was almost killed for committing incest with his daughter (by Pasupati) in brahma purana shows the offence right?
November 10th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Dear Sapr
I agree and i have good faith on jesus who is saint came to their land.>>
A small correction. Christian’s believe, earlier, God talked with people through ‘Word/Sound”, and finally he came down, revealed.
You are again proving that most of you people are very narow (but stilll there are some religious are there). When i accept jesus is saint.. do you people ever accept gita..upanishad.. (mostly liked by latest scientist). Christian who are in eroup accepting fact but christian who converts for the sake of …. not.. but they will too.. after realize the truth…
You also ask for question related to science.. what indian discover….
Oh sinner just hear… OM purnamathap purnamitham purnath purnamuthachathey…upanishad… which means it descrip value of zero..without zero no bloody worldly science accepted by same enstinn too.all numbers.. still they dont have lacs and crore we have.. our veda calculute……. crores and crores of year (kalpa) which no other religion.. but this veda not only for india it proclaim for universe…Its not discover by induvidual but many many rishis.. thats wat we dont know who discover… all this.. Ariyabata… austrology based on veda (which is ageless) our calculation on lunar eclipse is just like that do other religion has..christian bible light on that… we have god of all planet sun,moon,venus,saturn… we discover long back do bible has any idea over …Pl dont again spoil indian knowldge if you dont have ask for it.. dont abuse … the very knowledge pleeeseeeeeeeeeeeee thankss.
your explaination to my questions all blunder… no valid… i ask from point of cristianisam… but again you try to confuse… you dont i know you never agree… what is wrong init…
November 10th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Hi sheetal kamat(..alias Sophia,)
Your Christian back ground betrays you and your attempt to portray as a Hindu is a façade.
Be true to your faith you hold so dear ,don’t lie to ” youself”, ”your soul” and “your GOD “ and don’t show your GOD in a bad Light.
And if you still don’t come out with your original name then It confirms my earlier doubts that Christianity is after all the “RELIGION OF THE DEVIL HIMSELF”
And when the Arch Bishop’s in India could conspire to kill Swami laxmananda Saraswathi and still
Lie about it in front of the TV camera’s I lost faith in your religion to be frank I was only expecting
At least “ one true Christian” to stand up and say bravely “YES WE KILLED THE SWAMI”.
November 10th, 2008 at 8:54 am
“sheetal kamat
November 10th, 2008 at 7:08 am
Vamsi,
Brahma was almost killed for committing incest with his daughter (by Pasupati) in brahma purana shows the offence right?”
JUST AS” JOSEPH COMMITTED INCEST VIRGIN MARY HIS DAUGHTER AND THE RESULT WAS JESUS CHRIST ” AND THE WHOLE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY GAVE A SPIN CALLED “IMMACULATE CONCEPTION”.
DO YOU AGREE WITH ME LIER SHEETAL KAMAT ( ALIAS SOPHIA).
November 10th, 2008 at 9:03 am
HEY GUYS TODAYS NEWS IS THAT ” CHRISTIANS PRIESTS IN EUROPE WANTED TO GET MARRIED AND REAR CHILDREN” FINALLY THE CAT HAS COME OUT OF THE BAG .
EARLIER THEY WERE SOMEHOW CURTAILING THEIR INSTINCT BY IN INDULGING IN PEDOPHILA AND HOMO SEXUALITY.
November 10th, 2008 at 9:04 am
FACTS ABOUT CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN PRIESTS:
Estimates for gay priests run from 25% to 50%. On the Pope’s position on faggots (on the bottom), history of marriage, etc. Denis Diderot (a leader of the reformation and associate of Voltaire) in his Memoirs of a Nun (La Religieuse)–a few juice pages here.
The Phoenix Gazette, Section A, Tues November 30, 1993
Dozens of
reported abused by Catholic friars
By Jeff Wilson
The Associated Press
GOLETA, Calif. — For more than two decades, Roman Catholic priests sexually abused boys aged 7 -to 16 at a boarding school in a Santa Barbara seminary, a panel organized by a Franciscan order concluded. A board of inquiry for the St. Barbara Province of the Francis can Order said Monday that 12 priests engaged in nude games, fondling and other sex acts with students at St. Anthony’s Semi nary from 1964 to 1987, when it closed because of financial prob lems. So far, 34 boys, mostly teenag ers, have been identified as vic tims.
“The abuse perpetrated by our own brothers on the victims and their families is truly horrific,” said the Rev. Joseph Chinnici, minister of the Oakland-based Province of St. Barbara and leader of Franciscans in seven Western states. “We totally abhor what has occurred,” Chinnici said.
At a news conference Monday night, the chairman of the order’s panel said they were stunned by the results of their investigation. “We found that in the years in question, a serious problem of sexual abuse of minors by friars existed at the seminary,” Geoffrey Stearns said. He said the investigation would continue and that the panel ex pects other alleged victims to come forward.
A message left after business hours Monday at District Attorney Thomas Sneddon’s office was not immediately returned. Lt. John Thayer, a police spokesman, said prosecutions of the priests were unlikely because of the statute of limitations, which is six years on child molestation cases in Califor nia. Of the 12 priests, whose names weren’t disclosed in a 72-page report, eight were being treated by therapists. One left the order, one died and another priest’s case was being investigated by the panel. The other priest served six months in jail after pleading no contest in 1989 to oral copulation of a minor at the seminary. After the case, the order sent out letters to former students asking if they had been abused. When some of them came forward the order decided to investigate. The panel, organized in 1992, included an attorney, three psy chotherapists, a member of the order and a victim’s parent.
The Roman Catholic Church has been criticized for not addressing abuses openly in the past. A flurry of lawsuits accuse the church of quietly reassigning offenders to other parishes. Cardinal Roger Mahony, arch bishop of the Los Angeles archdio cese, said the seminary does not fall under his jurisdiction, but that archdiocesan officials approved of the way the investigation was handled.
The panel said the Franciscan friars involved children in nude games, nude photographs, fon dling, masturbation, oral copula tion and examination of genitals under the guise of hernia exams. Chinnici said the order has paid $90,000 so far for counseling for the victims. He wouldn’t disclose whether the victims have been paid anything else to make amends for their suffering. “When the process first began, I was under the impression that there were only a few cases of sexual abuse at the seminary. I was wrong,” said Chinnici. “To the victims and their fami lies, I want to express on behalf of all the friars, our most profound apologies,” he said. “The report gives graphic testimony to the humiliation, loss of faith and betrayal of trust.”
Sex abuse by priests found to be rampant
Survey provides framework for examining Catholic crisis
By Laurie Goodutuin
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
The sex-abuse crisis that engulfed the Roman Catholic Church during the past 12 months has spread to nearly every American diocese and in volves more than 1,200 priests, most of whose careers span a mix of church history and seminary training. These priests are known to have abused more than 4,000 minors over the past six decades, accord ing to an extensive New York Times survey of documented cases of sexual abuse by priests through Dec. 31, 2002.
The survey, the most complete compilation of data on the problem available, contains the names and histories of 1,205 accused priests. It counted 4,268 people who claimed publicly or in lawsuits to have been abused by priests, though experts say there are surely many more who have re vulnerable youth long before the first victims sued the church and went public in 1984 in Louisiana. Some offenses date from the 1930s.
This has been going on for decades, probably centuries,” said Richard K O’Connor a former Dominican priest who say he was one of 10 boys sexually assaulted by three priests in a South Bronx N.Y., parish In 1940, when he was 10. “It was just that all of a sudden the caught us.”
MORE BUTT BANGING PRIESTS
Published 4/8/02 by American Atheist
Canada is one example of where the pedophile scandal has drawn media and judicial scrutiny. Indians there have filed over 2,500 compensations claims of physical and sexual abuses at a string of boarding schools operated by the Oblates of Mary Immaculate.
Last week, the religious order filed for bankruptcy protection. Reports of cleric abuse in Australia began in the late 1980s in Australia, with nearly 50 priests and brothers sentenced for Sexual offenses in the last nine years. Some of the most horrific took place in Christian Brothers orphanages.
A brother who testified at government inquiries said that he received pressure directly from the Vatican to stop releasing material about clerical molestation and impropriety.
In Ireland, site of deep religious divisions, the church is confronting what The Irish Times newspaper describes as “the greatest institutional crisis in its modern history.” In a negotiated settlement announced last January, about 3,000 victims of churches schools, reformatories and orphanages will share in a $110 million compensation package.
Bishops hastily established a child protection office. In neighboring England, 21 priests were convicted of sexual molestation from 1995 to 1999.
CONFIDENTIAL STUDY REVEALS CHURCH ABUSE OF NUNS
Pedophile Scandal Not the Only “Dirty Secret” Behind Church doors
A secret study conducted by St. Louis University and financed by several orders of Roman Catholic nuns reveals that many of the women and young girls who took church vows have been sexually victimized by priests and others in the male-controlled church hierarchy. According to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, which obtained a copy of the report, a “minimum” of 34,000 Catholics nuns — about 40% of the national total — have suffered some kind of sexual trauma. “Some of that sexual abuse, exploitation or harassment has come at the hands of priests and other nuns in the church,” notes the Dispatch. Many of the victims “were left with feelings of anger, shame, anxiety and depression.”
The revelations come as the Catholic hierarchy is trying to survive the growing pedophile scandal. A number of archdiocese are on the verge of financial bankruptcy — will the government step in with some kind of assistance? and face loss of support from many followers.
“The bishops appear to be only looking at the issue of child sexual abuse,” said Ann Wolfe, one of the researchers on the confidential study. “Catholic sisters are being violated, in their ministries, at work, in pastoral counseling.” The study was “intentionally never publicized,” reports the Dispatch. And a spokesperson for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said that the group was unaware of the report. Other findings in the document: Of the 1,100 surveys returned to researchers, a number included disturbing personal accounts of abuse. These include the case of a priest fondling breasts during confession, and “sexual experiment” as a prescribed therapeutic technique by one pastoral psychologist. Another wrote that as a young girl, a priest insisted on applying “holy oil” to her genital area “to keep me safe while dating.” Later, when she became a nun, her superiors forced her to attend religious retreats with the same priest, who also happened to be her uncle. Several respondents said that the research was long overdue. “Thanks for taking the time to admit there is a problem in this area,” wrote one participant in the study.
About one-in-ten nuns admitted to being the focus of sexual harassment of some kind at least once in the course of their religious careers. Half of these involved priests, or other nuns and religious figures. “More than half of the total harassment cases involved some type of physical contact,” reported the Dispatch.
*One-in-eight nuns claimed to have been “sexually exploited. “Seventy-five percent of these reported cases involved a priest, nun or other religious figure, with the requests involving everything from “dates” to sexual intercourse. Out of this cohort, 40% said that the encounters involved intimate contact.
The figures likely represent underestimates of the actual incidents involving some kind of sexual exploitation or contact, said researchers. “The fear and pain of disclosure would be sufficient enough to discourage responding in some sister,” the report said.
According to Dispatch, the study was deliberately given a low profile. A summary of the survey appeared in the May-June, 1998 edition of “Review for Religious,” a journal published by St. Louis University, with the full results appearing in the “Review of Religious Research.”
“Both are respected journals with limited circulation,” noted writer Bill Smith of the Dispatch. The researchers reportedly agreed to not send out a press release because of disapproval from a national Catholic women’s organization, the Leadership Conference of Women Religious that feared that the findings would be “sensationalized.”
“It was like this,” said John T. Chibnall, a research psychologist at St. Louis University who co-authored the research summary. “We don’t wash our dirty laundry in public; we’ll (the church) take care of it.”
Another St. Louis University professor connected with the project, Paul N. Duckso said that investigators “guaranteed” the various religious communities involved “that we would not handle this in any way that sought publicity.” He added that the two low-circulation journals were selected in order to presumably disseminate the information to key individuals, “but not out in front of everybody’s eyes.”
November 10th, 2008 at 9:05 am
TRUE FACTS ABOUT CHRISTIAN PRIESTS
Estimates for gay priests run from 25% to 50%. On the Pope’s position on faggots (on the bottom), history of marriage, etc. Denis Diderot (a leader of the reformation and associate of Voltaire) in his Memoirs of a Nun (La Religieuse)–a few juice pages here.
The Phoenix Gazette, Section A, Tues November 30, 1993
Dozens of
reported abused by Catholic friars
By Jeff Wilson
The Associated Press
GOLETA, Calif. — For more than two decades, Roman Catholic priests sexually abused boys aged 7 -to 16 at a boarding school in a Santa Barbara seminary, a panel organized by a Franciscan order concluded. A board of inquiry for the St. Barbara Province of the Francis can Order said Monday that 12 priests engaged in nude games, fondling and other sex acts with students at St. Anthony’s Semi nary from 1964 to 1987, when it closed because of financial prob lems. So far, 34 boys, mostly teenag ers, have been identified as vic tims.
“The abuse perpetrated by our own brothers on the victims and their families is truly horrific,” said the Rev. Joseph Chinnici, minister of the Oakland-based Province of St. Barbara and leader of Franciscans in seven Western states. “We totally abhor what has occurred,” Chinnici said.
At a news conference Monday night, the chairman of the order’s panel said they were stunned by the results of their investigation. “We found that in the years in question, a serious problem of sexual abuse of minors by friars existed at the seminary,” Geoffrey Stearns said. He said the investigation would continue and that the panel ex pects other alleged victims to come forward.
A message left after business hours Monday at District Attorney Thomas Sneddon’s office was not immediately returned. Lt. John Thayer, a police spokesman, said prosecutions of the priests were unlikely because of the statute of limitations, which is six years on child molestation cases in Califor nia. Of the 12 priests, whose names weren’t disclosed in a 72-page report, eight were being treated by therapists. One left the order, one died and another priest’s case was being investigated by the panel. The other priest served six months in jail after pleading no contest in 1989 to oral copulation of a minor at the seminary. After the case, the order sent out letters to former students asking if they had been abused. When some of them came forward the order decided to investigate. The panel, organized in 1992, included an attorney, three psy chotherapists, a member of the order and a victim’s parent.
The Roman Catholic Church has been criticized for not addressing abuses openly in the past. A flurry of lawsuits accuse the church of quietly reassigning offenders to other parishes. Cardinal Roger Mahony, arch bishop of the Los Angeles archdio cese, said the seminary does not fall under his jurisdiction, but that archdiocesan officials approved of the way the investigation was handled.
The panel said the Franciscan friars involved children in nude games, nude photographs, fon dling, masturbation, oral copula tion and examination of genitals under the guise of hernia exams. Chinnici said the order has paid $90,000 so far for counseling for the victims. He wouldn’t disclose whether the victims have been paid anything else to make amends for their suffering. “When the process first began, I was under the impression that there were only a few cases of sexual abuse at the seminary. I was wrong,” said Chinnici. “To the victims and their fami lies, I want to express on behalf of all the friars, our most profound apologies,” he said. “The report gives graphic testimony to the humiliation, loss of faith and betrayal of trust.”
Sex abuse by priests found to be rampant
Survey provides framework for examining Catholic crisis
By Laurie Goodutuin
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
The sex-abuse crisis that engulfed the Roman Catholic Church during the past 12 months has spread to nearly every American diocese and in volves more than 1,200 priests, most of whose careers span a mix of church history and seminary training. These priests are known to have abused more than 4,000 minors over the past six decades, accord ing to an extensive New York Times survey of documented cases of sexual abuse by priests through Dec. 31, 2002.
The survey, the most complete compilation of data on the problem available, contains the names and histories of 1,205 accused priests. It counted 4,268 people who claimed publicly or in lawsuits to have been abused by priests, though experts say there are surely many more who have re vulnerable youth long before the first victims sued the church and went public in 1984 in Louisiana. Some offenses date from the 1930s.
This has been going on for decades, probably centuries,” said Richard K O’Connor a former Dominican priest who say he was one of 10 boys sexually assaulted by three priests in a South Bronx N.Y., parish In 1940, when he was 10. “It was just that all of a sudden the caught us.”
MORE BUTT BANGING PRIESTS
Published 4/8/02 by American Atheist
Canada is one example of where the pedophile scandal has drawn media and judicial scrutiny. Indians there have filed over 2,500 compensations claims of physical and sexual abuses at a string of boarding schools operated by the Oblates of Mary Immaculate.
Last week, the religious order filed for bankruptcy protection. Reports of cleric abuse in Australia began in the late 1980s in Australia, with nearly 50 priests and brothers sentenced for Sexual offenses in the last nine years. Some of the most horrific took place in Christian Brothers orphanages.
A brother who testified at government inquiries said that he received pressure directly from the Vatican to stop releasing material about clerical molestation and impropriety.
In Ireland, site of deep religious divisions, the church is confronting what The Irish Times newspaper describes as “the greatest institutional crisis in its modern history.” In a negotiated settlement announced last January, about 3,000 victims of churches schools, reformatories and orphanages will share in a $110 million compensation package.
Bishops hastily established a child protection office. In neighboring England, 21 priests were convicted of sexual molestation from 1995 to 1999.
CONFIDENTIAL STUDY REVEALS CHURCH ABUSE OF NUNS
Pedophile Scandal Not the Only “Dirty Secret” Behind Church doors
A secret study conducted by St. Louis University and financed by several orders of Roman Catholic nuns reveals that many of the women and young girls who took church vows have been sexually victimized by priests and others in the male-controlled church hierarchy. According to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, which obtained a copy of the report, a “minimum” of 34,000 Catholics nuns — about 40% of the national total — have suffered some kind of sexual trauma. “Some of that sexual abuse, exploitation or harassment has come at the hands of priests and other nuns in the church,” notes the Dispatch. Many of the victims “were left with feelings of anger, shame, anxiety and depression.”
The revelations come as the Catholic hierarchy is trying to survive the growing pedophile scandal. A number of archdiocese are on the verge of financial bankruptcy — will the government step in with some kind of assistance? and face loss of support from many followers.
“The bishops appear to be only looking at the issue of child sexual abuse,” said Ann Wolfe, one of the researchers on the confidential study. “Catholic sisters are being violated, in their ministries, at work, in pastoral counseling.” The study was “intentionally never publicized,” reports the Dispatch. And a spokesperson for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said that the group was unaware of the report. Other findings in the document: Of the 1,100 surveys returned to researchers, a number included disturbing personal accounts of abuse. These include the case of a priest fondling breasts during confession, and “sexual experiment” as a prescribed therapeutic technique by one pastoral psychologist. Another wrote that as a young girl, a priest insisted on applying “holy oil” to her genital area “to keep me safe while dating.” Later, when she became a nun, her superiors forced her to attend religious retreats with the same priest, who also happened to be her uncle. Several respondents said that the research was long overdue. “Thanks for taking the time to admit there is a problem in this area,” wrote one participant in the study.
About one-in-ten nuns admitted to being the focus of sexual harassment of some kind at least once in the course of their religious careers. Half of these involved priests, or other nuns and religious figures. “More than half of the total harassment cases involved some type of physical contact,” reported the Dispatch.
*One-in-eight nuns claimed to have been “sexually exploited. “Seventy-five percent of these reported cases involved a priest, nun or other religious figure, with the requests involving everything from “dates” to sexual intercourse. Out of this cohort, 40% said that the encounters involved intimate contact.
The figures likely represent underestimates of the actual incidents involving some kind of sexual exploitation or contact, said researchers. “The fear and pain of disclosure would be sufficient enough to discourage responding in some sister,” the report said.
According to Dispatch, the study was deliberately given a low profile. A summary of the survey appeared in the May-June, 1998 edition of “Review for Religious,” a journal published by St. Louis University, with the full results appearing in the “Review of Religious Research.”
“Both are respected journals with limited circulation,” noted writer Bill Smith of the Dispatch. The researchers reportedly agreed to not send out a press release because of disapproval from a national Catholic women’s organization, the Leadership Conference of Women Religious that feared that the findings would be “sensationalized.”
“It was like this,” said John T. Chibnall, a research psychologist at St. Louis University who co-authored the research summary. “We don’t wash our dirty laundry in public; we’ll (the church) take care of it.”
Another St. Louis University professor connected with the project, Paul N. Duckso said that investigators “guaranteed” the various religious communities involved “that we would not handle this in any way that sought publicity.” He added that the two low-circulation journals were selected in order to presumably disseminate the information to key individuals, “but not out in front of everybody’s eyes.”
November 10th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Dear sapr333,
Look at religion is a big lader where in we have to get out from body worldly life… you are look at always over religious fanatisim …try to be religious… i never say that you should not have rajoo guna one must have.. when people crictic… but you dont indulge such act… am watching you are most hater of india.n..religion. All are come from god and will go to god.. between why such clash..why provoke..
I dont say i dont have rajoo.. i do have but.. with the sense it must be..
November 10th, 2008 at 9:38 am
easwar-TRICH
November 10th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Dear sapr333,
Look at religion is a big lader where in we have to get out from body worldly life… you are look at always over religious fanatisim …try to be religious… i never say that you should not have rajoo guna one must have.. when people crictic… but you dont indulge such act… am watching you are most hater of india.n..religion. All are come from god and will go to god.. between why such clash..why provoke..
I dont say i dont have rajoo.. i do have but.. with the sense it must be..
HI EASHWAR YOU ARE A VERY NICE GUY,BUT YOU ARE TRYING TO REASON OUT AND TALK LOGIC TO LIERS,CHEATS ,VIOLENT
CHRISTIANS WHOSE SOULS ARE ONLY FILLED WITH HATRED FOR
HINDUISM AND THEIR MINDS WILL NEVER OPEN TO LOOK INTO THE GOOD THAT HINDUISM HAS OFFERED TO THE HUMANITY.
THEY ONLY UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE OF HATRED AND THEY ONLY UNDERSTAND IF YOU ABUSE CHRISTIANITY.
November 10th, 2008 at 9:43 am
sheetal kamat
November 10th, 2008 at 6:52 am
@Vamsi
birth of ram.
good & you are correct.
November 10th, 2008 at 10:09 am
sheetal kamat
.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:17 am
@Vamsi,
Now I think, there will not be any doubt on why there were 16108 wives for Krsna
KRISHNA’S 16,000 WIVES & DESTRUCTION OF HIS OWN DESCENDANTS
Krishna married and had sex with 16,000 w
talk with some decorum.. when you know only you write.. dont write just for the sake of it…. every indian will have decorum.. try to read fully…
answer: evil mind produce only evil thinking .. god mind produce god itself.. god bless you
November 10th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Immaculate Deception
By David J. Stewart
I want to speak to you about Immaculate Deception of Mary which the Catholic Church teaches. Actually, they call this false doctrine the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION OF MARY; but I renamed it to the “Immaculate Deception,” because that is exactly what it is. There is NO bigger lie today than the heresy that Mary was without sin.
Read what the Catholic’s teach for yourself…
The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what “immaculate” means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings…
Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence. [emphasis added]
SOURCE: http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
Only a fool would believe that Mary was sinless in lieu of Romans 5:12… “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.” Of course, the Catholics, in an attempt to cover up one lie, had to fabricate another lie–the Assumption of Mary. If Mary never sinned, then how could she die, because the Bible says the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). So Catholics manufactured another heresy which claims that Mary was bodily “assumed” into Heaven and never saw death. This reminds me of a little child who is telling one whopping lie after another to weasel his way around the truth. Why don’t Catholics just admit the truth that Catholicism is of the Devil!
According to WIKIPEDIA.COM…
The Immaculate Conception is, according to Roman Catholic dogma, the conception of Mary, the mother of Jesus without any stain of original sin, in her mother’s womb: the dogma thus says that, from the first moment of her existence, she was preserved by God from the lack of sanctifying grace that afflicts mankind, and that she was instead filled with divine grace. It is further believed that she lived a life completely free from sin. [emphasis added on last sentence]
SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
Lies! Lies! and more lies! Jesus’ mother was a dirty, rotten, sinner just like Adolf Hitler or any other sinner. James 2:10 states, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” I don’t care if you’ve only committed a small handful of sins in your life, you are as guilty IN THE EYES OF GOD as a mass-murdering criminal. Committing even one sin is enough to bring a person under the condemnation of God’s Law; thus, sentencing them to eternal Hellfire. So the question is… did Jesus’ mother ever sin one time? According to the Bible she did. Catholics pervert the Scriptures, claiming that Romans 3:23 doesn’t apply to Mary, when it states… “For ALL have sinned.” What part of ALL don’t Catholics understand? We know Jesus never sinned because the Bible tells us so (2nd Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15). There is nothing mentioned in the Scriptures about Mary being sinless, without any corruption, or assumed into Heaven.
Luke 1:28 Does Not Support the Catholic Heresy of Immaculate Conception
According to Catholic.com…
When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.
SOURCE: http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
A literal translation of the TEXTUS RECEPTUS Greek in Luke 1:28 reads, “And entering, the angel said to her, Hail, one having received grace! The Lord is with you. You are blessed among women!” (SOURCE: THE INTERLINEAR BIBLE, Jay P. Green, Sr.; Sovereign Grace Publishers, ISBN: 1-878442-81-3). Luke 1:28 in the King James Bible reads, “And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.” The Greek word for “favoured” is charitoo, meaning, “to be highly favoured, make accepted.” The King James Bible is 100% correct. The term “FULL OF GRACE,” which Catholics have idolized in their Rosary recitals, is not a Biblical term concerning Mary. The original Greek NEVER says Mary was “FULL” of grace; rather, it says that Mary received grace from God, just as every believer is entitled to by the precious blood of Jesus (Hebrews 4:16).
Luke 1:28 in NO way gives credence, or implies, that Mary was born without a sin-nature or that she lived a sinless life. For Roman Catholics to attempt to justify such a far-fetched and unbiblical doctrine on mere speculation is the height of unscholarly rubbish. The ONLY mention of the phrase “full of grace” is reserved for Jesus Christ in the Scriptures, in John 1:14… “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” Mary was never full of grace; but rather, she was the blessed recipient of God’s grace, as is every born again believer. Catholics have perverted the truth once again. So the next time you hear a Catholic saying that Mary was “full of grace,” you know they’re full of something else.
Catholics Sinfully Claim the Right and Power to “Define” the Scriptures
Please read the following comments from Catholic.com…
The Bible Only?
Since the Immaculate Conception and Assumption are not explicit in Scripture, Fundamentalists conclude that the doctrines are false. Here, of course, we get into an entirely separate matter, the question of sola scriptura, or the Protestant “Bible only” theory. There is no room in this tract to consider that idea. Let it just be said that if the position of the Catholic Church is true, then the notion of sola scriptura is false. There is then no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture. [emphasis added]
SOURCE: http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
Carefully read the last sentence in the above quote. Catholics claim that there’s NO PROBLEM with the “Catholic Church officially defining a doctrine.” Oh really? Since when is the Catholic Church the sole proprietor of the Scriptures? Did God give them the right to decide what the Scriptures really mean? Does not the Word of God speak clearly for Itself? Yes, the Bible most certainly DOES! Catholicism is of the Devil, because it perverts the Scriptures. The Catholic Church has been fabricating manmade doctrines for centuries, under the pretense of “defining” ambiguous portions of Scripture. The truth is that the Catholic Church perverts the Scriptures, and lies to their followers, claiming the right and power to twist the Bible, when they should leave God’s Word alone. Nearly everything the Catholic Church teaches contradicts the Scriptures! To teach the bizarre notion that Mary was sinless and then assumed bodily into Heaven contradicts the Bible 100%. The Bible needs no interpretation. God said what He meant, and meant what He said! The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary is an immaculate DECEPTION!
November 10th, 2008 at 10:34 am
LIES LIES ABOUT IMMACULATE CONCEPTION!
Immaculate Deception
By David J. Stewart
I want to speak to you about Immaculate Deception of Mary which the Catholic Church teaches. Actually, they call this false doctrine the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION OF MARY; but I renamed it to the “Immaculate Deception,” because that is exactly what it is. There is NO bigger lie today than the heresy that Mary was without sin.
Read what the Catholic’s teach for yourself…
The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what “immaculate” means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings…
Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence. [emphasis added]
SOURCE: http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
Only a fool would believe that Mary was sinless in lieu of Romans 5:12… “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.” Of course, the Catholics, in an attempt to cover up one lie, had to fabricate another lie–the Assumption of Mary. If Mary never sinned, then how could she die, because the Bible says the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). So Catholics manufactured another heresy which claims that Mary was bodily “assumed” into Heaven and never saw death. This reminds me of a little child who is telling one whopping lie after another to weasel his way around the truth. Why don’t Catholics just admit the truth that Catholicism is of the Devil!
According to WIKIPEDIA.COM…
The Immaculate Conception is, according to Roman Catholic dogma, the conception of Mary, the mother of Jesus without any stain of original sin, in her mother’s womb: the dogma thus says that, from the first moment of her existence, she was preserved by God from the lack of sanctifying grace that afflicts mankind, and that she was instead filled with divine grace. It is further believed that she lived a life completely free from sin. [emphasis added on last sentence]
SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception
Lies! Lies! and more lies! Jesus’ mother was a dirty, rotten, sinner just like Adolf Hitler or any other sinner. James 2:10 states, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” I don’t care if you’ve only committed a small handful of sins in your life, you are as guilty IN THE EYES OF GOD as a mass-murdering criminal. Committing even one sin is enough to bring a person under the condemnation of God’s Law; thus, sentencing them to eternal Hellfire. So the question is… did Jesus’ mother ever sin one time? According to the Bible she did. Catholics pervert the Scriptures, claiming that Romans 3:23 doesn’t apply to Mary, when it states… “For ALL have sinned.” What part of ALL don’t Catholics understand? We know Jesus never sinned because the Bible tells us so (2nd Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15). There is nothing mentioned in the Scriptures about Mary being sinless, without any corruption, or assumed into Heaven.
Luke 1:28 Does Not Support the Catholic Heresy of Immaculate Conception
According to Catholic.com…
When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.
SOURCE: http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
A literal translation of the TEXTUS RECEPTUS Greek in Luke 1:28 reads, “And entering, the angel said to her, Hail, one having received grace! The Lord is with you. You are blessed among women!” (SOURCE: THE INTERLINEAR BIBLE, Jay P. Green, Sr.; Sovereign Grace Publishers, ISBN: 1-878442-81-3). Luke 1:28 in the King James Bible reads, “And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.” The Greek word for “favoured” is charitoo, meaning, “to be highly favoured, make accepted.” The King James Bible is 100% correct. The term “FULL OF GRACE,” which Catholics have idolized in their Rosary recitals, is not a Biblical term concerning Mary. The original Greek NEVER says Mary was “FULL” of grace; rather, it says that Mary received grace from God, just as every believer is entitled to by the precious blood of Jesus (Hebrews 4:16).
Luke 1:28 in NO way gives credence, or implies, that Mary was born without a sin-nature or that she lived a sinless life. For Roman Catholics to attempt to justify such a far-fetched and unbiblical doctrine on mere speculation is the height of unscholarly rubbish. The ONLY mention of the phrase “full of grace” is reserved for Jesus Christ in the Scriptures, in John 1:14… “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” Mary was never full of grace; but rather, she was the blessed recipient of God’s grace, as is every born again believer. Catholics have perverted the truth once again. So the next time you hear a Catholic saying that Mary was “full of grace,” you know they’re full of something else.
Catholics Sinfully Claim the Right and Power to “Define” the Scriptures
Please read the following comments from Catholic.com…
The Bible Only?
Since the Immaculate Conception and Assumption are not explicit in Scripture, Fundamentalists conclude that the doctrines are false. Here, of course, we get into an entirely separate matter, the question of sola scriptura, or the Protestant “Bible only” theory. There is no room in this tract to consider that idea. Let it just be said that if the position of the Catholic Church is true, then the notion of sola scriptura is false. There is then no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture. [emphasis added]
SOURCE: http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
Carefully read the last sentence in the above quote. Catholics claim that there’s NO PROBLEM with the “Catholic Church officially defining a doctrine.” Oh really? Since when is the Catholic Church the sole proprietor of the Scriptures? Did God give them the right to decide what the Scriptures really mean? Does not the Word of God speak clearly for Itself? Yes, the Bible most certainly DOES! Catholicism is of the Devil, because it perverts the Scriptures. The Catholic Church has been fabricating manmade doctrines for centuries, under the pretense of “defining” ambiguous portions of Scripture. The truth is that the Catholic Church perverts the Scriptures, and lies to their followers, claiming the right and power to twist the Bible, when they should leave God’s Word alone. Nearly everything the Catholic Church teaches contradicts the Scriptures! To teach the bizarre notion that Mary was sinless and then assumed bodily into Heaven contradicts the Bible 100%. The Bible needs no interpretation. God said what He meant, and meant what He said! The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary is an immaculate DECEPTION!
November 10th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Immaculate deception
I want to speak to you about Immaculate Deception of Mary which the Catholic Church teaches. Actually, they call this false doctrine the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION OF MARY; but I renamed it to the “Immaculate Deception,” because that is exactly what it is. There is NO bigger lie today than the heresy that Mary was without sin.
Read what the Catholic’s teach for yourself…
The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain—that’s what “immaculate” means: without stain. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a corrupt nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings…
Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates that Mary was graced in the past but with continuing effects in the present. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit. In fact, Catholics hold, it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying
Only a fool would believe that Mary was sinless in lieu of Romans 5:12… “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.” Of course, the Catholics, in an attempt to cover up one lie, had to fabricate another lie–the Assumption of Mary. If Mary never sinned, then how could she die, because the Bible says the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). So Catholics manufactured another heresy which claims that Mary was bodily “assumed” into Heaven and never saw death. This reminds me of a little child who is telling one whopping lie after another to weasel his way around the truth. Why don’t Catholics just admit the truth that Catholicism is of the Devil!
The Immaculate Conception is, according to Roman Catholic dogma, the conception of Mary, the mother of Jesus without any stain of original sin, in her mother’s womb: the dogma thus says that, from the first moment of her existence, she was preserved by God from the lack of sanctifying grace that afflicts mankind, and that she was instead filled with divine grace. It is further believed that she lived a life completely free from sin. [emphasis added on last sentence]
Lies! Lies! and more lies! Jesus’ mother was a dirty, rotten, sinner just like Adolf Hitler or any other sinner. James 2:10 states, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” I don’t care if you’ve only committed a small handful of sins in your life, you are as guilty IN THE EYES OF GOD as a mass-murdering criminal. Committing even one sin is enough to bring a person under the condemnation of God’s Law; thus, sentencing them to eternal Hellfire. So the question is… did Jesus’ mother ever sin one time? According to the Bible she did. Catholics pervert the Scriptures, claiming that Romans 3:23 doesn’t apply to Mary, when it states… “For ALL have sinned.” What part of ALL don’t Catholics understand? We know Jesus never sinned because the Bible tells us so (2nd Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15). There is nothing mentioned in the Scriptures about Mary being sinless, without any corruption, or assumed into Heaven.
Luke 1:28 Does Not Support the Catholic Heresy of Immaculate Conception
According to Catholic.com…
When discussing the Immaculate Conception, an implicit reference may be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you” (Luke 1:28). The phrase “full of grace” is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. It therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.
A literal translation of the TEXTUS RECEPTUS Greek in Luke 1:28 reads, “And entering, the angel said to her, Hail, one having received grace! The Lord is with you. You are blessed among women!” (SOURCE: THE INTERLINEAR BIBLE, Jay P. Green, Sr.; Sovereign Grace Publishers, ISBN: 1-878442-81-3). Luke 1:28 in the King James Bible reads, “And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.” The Greek word for “favoured” is charitoo, meaning, “to be highly favoured, make accepted.” The King James Bible is 100% correct. The term “FULL OF GRACE,” which Catholics have idolized in their Rosary recitals, is not a Biblical term concerning Mary. The original Greek NEVER says Mary was “FULL” of grace; rather, it says that Mary received grace from God, just as every believer is entitled to by the precious blood of Jesus (Hebrews 4:16).
Luke 1:28 in NO way gives credence, or implies, that Mary was born without a sin-nature or that she lived a sinless life. For Roman Catholics to attempt to justify such a far-fetched and unbiblical doctrine on mere speculation is the height of unscholarly rubbish. The ONLY mention of the phrase “full of grace” is reserved for Jesus Christ in the Scriptures, in John 1:14… “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” Mary was never full of grace; but rather, she was the blessed recipient of God’s grace, as is every born again believer. Catholics have perverted the truth once again. So the next time you hear a Catholic saying that Mary was “full of grace,” you know they’re full of something else.
Catholics Sinfully Claim the Right and Power to “Define” the Scriptures
Please read the following comments from Catholic.com…
The Bible Only?
Since the Immaculate Conception and Assumption are not explicit in Scripture, Fundamentalists conclude that the doctrines are false. Here, of course, we get into an entirely separate matter, the question of sola scriptura, or the Protestant “Bible only” theory. There is no room in this tract to consider that idea. Let it just be said that if the position of the Catholic Church is true, then the notion of sola scriptura is false. There is then no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture. [emphasis added]
Carefully read the last sentence in the above quote. Catholics claim that there’s NO PROBLEM with the “Catholic Church officially defining a doctrine.” Oh really? Since when is the Catholic Church the sole proprietor of the Scriptures? Did God give them the right to decide what the Scriptures really mean? Does not the Word of God speak clearly for Itself? Yes, the Bible most certainly DOES! Catholicism is of the Devil, because it perverts the Scriptures. The Catholic Church has been fabricating manmade doctrines for centuries, under the pretense of “defining” ambiguous portions of Scripture. The truth is that the Catholic Church perverts the Scriptures, and lies to their followers, claiming the right and power to twist the Bible, when they should leave God’s Word alone. Nearly everything the Catholic Church teaches contradicts the Scriptures! To teach the bizarre notion that Mary was sinless and then assumed bodily into Heaven contradicts the Bible 100%. The Bible needs no interpretation. God said what He meant, and meant what He said! The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary is an immaculate DECEPTION!
November 10th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Easwar,
Its refreshing to see your posting here after so many days. Thank you…
BharathMohan,
I too didnot want to discuss these things(telling about puranas Ramayana and MahaBharath, but if we sit still and because there are idiotic translations and others available on the internet which deviate from the original to any extent, I wanted to clarify these things, before people start believing this filth.
Sheetal,
About Uttarakaanda – Do you know that there are controversies over Uttarakanda and Balakanda? It was said that these were not written by Valmiki at all and later on they were compiled and that the original Ramayan completes with the YUdhdha kaanda. But most of us believe that they are part of the Ramayana. Don’t we? Also one thing to observe is that Valmiki doesnot appear in the 2-6 kaandas and only enters in the Uttarakaanda. This also raises doubts about whether he has written the Bala/Uttara kaanda. Two many cooks spoil the broth and this is exactly what happened to original Ramayana. And thats why this confusion!
>> “It is also true that Sri Rama himself listened to the story of the Ramayana’ and was pleased.”
Good! How did you conclude this?
Krsna seduces Gopis –
This is where I say that we should follow the originals and not the translations by some one. In the same Bhagawatha, Vyasa mentions that Krnsa is an ‘Askhalitha BrahmaChari’. What does that mean? Also, he mentions the story of Sages of Himalayas. What happened to that story? Ignored selectively. And because of this story only HrishiKesh(Rishi+Kesh) is a sacred place for us. All those translations done by whoever it may be,
“O’Flaherty, Wendy D. Hindu Myths: a sourcebook translated from the Sanskrit”, you have quoted, have only looked at that slokas which are of interest to them and left the rest of them (and the internal meaning) to winds. Do you understand this?
KRISHNA’S 16,000 WIVES & DESTRUCTION OF HIS OWN DESCENDANTS
The true story goes this way. Yadavas after destroying all the demons etc become very arrogant/proud and gave up respecting dieties and maharshis. Oneday some seers come to their town and to humiliate them, yadus dress up Samba as a pregnant woman and produces before him and asks whether the girl will have a boy or girl. The seers knowing what they are upto, immediately curses them that he will bear a stone which will destroy the yadava dynasty as a whole and goes away. Hearing what has happened, Krsna knows that yadu dynasty is going to be destroyed. Samba dies when the stone comes out of his stomach. BalaRam immediately orders the yadavas to destroy the stone and throw the dust into the sea. While they were reducing the stone to powder, they fight among themselves and all of them die in that tussle. And a bit of the stone is thrown into the sea, which is swallowed by a fish. This bit is used in the arrow by a hunter, which ultimately kills Krsna too.
>> “have you heard of ramakrishna mission of which swami vivekanada is a missionary who went to America with his mission to spread our faith in that country”
A small correction… it was NOT to spread faith in that country, but to establish what Hinduism is (in life-style sense ) is and what Hindu philosphy is. Until then, Western people had an idea of India as having Kings, palanquins, polygamy and snakecharmers.
RAMA’s BIRTH:
Again you flawed/deviated from the original narration at the end saying that Rishyashringa was invited because he was virile etc. Yes! Sage RishyaShringa was invited to attend the yajna. But to do the ‘PutraKamesti’ yajna only as the primary one. Before this they performed the ‘Ashwamedha’ yajna (under the guidance auspicious Vasishta) just to prove that the king is invincible in the areas where the ritual horse has treaded. When the ‘PutraKamesti’ yajna is complete, the YagnaPurusha comes out of the homa and gives the dessert in a vessel to the Dasaratha. Please refer to original Valmiki-Ramayana for this. I’ll answer your other discussion points a little later as now I am a bit busy.
Thank you
November 10th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
“It is also true that Sri Rama himself listened to the story of the Ramayana and was pleased.
Good! How did you conclude this?
ANWER:
It is remarkable that Sri Rama himself listened to the story of the Ramayana’ and was pleased. Lava and Kusha sang the story before Rama very sweetly; Rama did not know that they were own sons!
And the poet who composed ‘Ramayana’ and taught the song and story to Lava and Kusha, was a great sage by name Valmiki
November 10th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
bharatmohan
November 10th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Hi sheetal kamat(..alias Sophia,)
By your doubtful nature one can come to these conclusions.
1.You donot believe that there are hindus who donot buy your hatred formula.
2.you dont believe that christians didnot kill swami laxmananda.
3.i pity your life partner who will have to jump in fire to prove her fidelity
4.please beieve your mother atleast that her husband is your dad.
November 10th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
sheetal kamat
.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:17 am
@Vamsi,
Now I think, there will not be any doubt on why there were 16108 wives for Krsna
KRISHNA’S 16,000 WIVES & DESTRUCTION OF HIS OWN DESCENDANTS
Krishna married and had sex with 16,000 w
talk with some decorum.. when you know only you write.. dont write just for the sake of it…. every indian will have decorum.. try to read fully…
evil mind produce only evil thinking .. god mind produce god itself.. god bless you
Answer:
i do agree that i should have used more decorum. But my intention is not to malign but to explain to these rougue elements who want to attack others claiming their superiority(i have showed the what it is) and make others believe that hatred is the way for hinduism’s growth. Srimad Bhagavatam 10:90:27-44; 11:1:1-4; 11:30:1-25. is the source about krishna and his thousands of wives.
November 10th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Saint Sheetal, don’t be jealous of Krishna having so many wives. Become a nun and you will be none other than the concubine of 20,000 holy fathers. If you are white in color, you can even go to Rome. And what more they will also teach you how to deliver a baby while shitting and still be a “virgin”.
November 11th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Tressa/Vamsi>>>Saint Sheetal, don’t be jealous of Krishna having so many wives.>>
The question here is not jealousy..But Morals?
Is it a right god given ‘moral’ to have 1000 wives? If gods can have 1000 wives, on what basis we condemn polygamy? What if our children justify the same and indulge in it?
In this light, Christ’s teaching commands a higher moral standard , when he said “He who look at a women with lusty eyes, has already sinned against her in heart”
Now,can you contradict my statement?
Easwar>>am watching you are most hater of india.n..religion.>>
I am only questioning/debating on religion ( I have never posted anything beyond scriptures), just because,I saw a man by name Deepak Kamat has hosted this blog of hatred and I’m questioning him here, only to find him ducking & keeping silence. I hate ‘Hindu Nationalism of Kamat” which may sound like Anti-Indian,which is not true. Blame it on RSS,who wants to identify non-hindus as non-Indians. If Christian’s doesnt have love for India, they wouldnt be running the largest educational institutions, in par with State
November 11th, 2008 at 12:41 am
>>The guys who made major fuzz about The Last temptation and The Da Vinci Code has no moral right to accuse the Hindus >>
What kind of Fuzz.. They condemned it and protested it, well under the rights given in Constitution. Didnt ask for price of heads.. instead, some 50+ top selling books were published to counter the claim on davinci code. Even if some vandalism happened towards Dan Brown, I can strongly condmen it , in line with the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Unlike Mangalore church vandalization, where, most of the hindus justify the act, as price for conversion..Thats the sadest part
November 11th, 2008 at 12:43 am
“Saint Sheetal, don’t be jealous of Krishna having so many wives. Become a nun and you will be none other than the concubine of 20,000 holy fathers. If you are white in color, you can even go to Rome. And what more they will also teach you how to deliver a baby while shitting and still be a “virgin”
Another hindu eunuch fanatic who has nothing to defend.
Hiding behind any ID will not keep you being coward.
Send your sister for that. May be your mother deserves being a virgin because you being given birth by her have proved useless or ashamed of your identity and that would surely be making her become a virgin herself.
November 11th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Bharat Mohan
“THEY ONLY UNDERSTAND THE LANGUAGE OF HATRED AND THEY ONLY UNDERSTAND IF YOU ABUSE CHRISTIANITY”
Language of eunuch in the disguise of a fake warrior. way
It seems to teach a lesson to you your mother and mother needs to be raped.
Stupid doctrine. Shovel in your ….Hinduism is not goondaism idiot.
November 11th, 2008 at 1:13 am
bharatMohan
November 10th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Immaculate deception and bharatmohan DOGMA
“I want to speak to you about Immaculate Deception of Mary which the Catholic Church teaches. Actually, they call this false doctrine the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION OF MARY; but I renamed it to the “Immaculate Deception,” because that is exactly what it is. There is NO bigger lie today than the heresy that Mary was without sin.
Reality:
When God who created universe he would obviously have the power to create life Right?Why are you finding fault at that? Is it impossible for God ( with his holy spirit ) to have baby jesus in mary’s womb without pre-marital sex or sin ?
Why are you getting restless?
Look at our own faith.
Sita’s Virtually Illicit Birth
In the Valmiki Ramayana, how King Janaka (Sita’s father) recounts the virtually illicit birth of Sita (Our Lord Rama’s wife):
“[Janaka:] ‘Now, one day when I was in the sacrificial grounds, I saw the ultimate celestial nymph, Menaka, flying through the sky, and this thought came to me: ‘If I should have a child in her, what a child that would be!’ As I was thinking in this way, my semen fell on the ground. And afterwards, as I was ploughing that field, there arose out of the earth, as first fruits, my daughter, who has celestial beauty and qualities, and can only be won by one whose bride price is his manliness. Since she arose from the surface of the earth, and was born from no womb, she is called Sita, the furrow.’ ” — Ramayana 1:65 (Devanagari manuscript w-14
That would clear your doubt right? Or is it making you more frustrated?