When will Indian Media stop defaming Thackeray’s Marati manoos?
In the first place, I am not a Marathi, neither do I know Marathi, nor do I know the Thackerrays. So I don’t have any personal axe to grind. I am forced to write this post because I see the media defaming Thackeray when in fact what they are doing is quite sensible. Let me tell you why?
When Laloo Prasad Yadav took over as the Railway Minister, he treated his Ministry as his father’s property and went on recruiting Biharis in Indian Railways throughout India. The media never objected to this discrimination. However, when the Marathis — inspired by the Thackerays – attacked the Biharis, the media screamed “racism”, “linguistic domination” et al.
Now why should this Laloo appoint Biharis in Karnataka and Maharashtra. Why does he not respect the sons of the soil.
My logic is very simple. When in Rome, be Roman. If you are going to stay in Mumbai, you have to respect Marati. Now this is not just about Marati. If I go to any place, I will have to respect the local culture. This is what the Thackeray’s insisted that you respect the culture of the land.
What Thackerrays did is very sensible. Respecting the culture of the land is the minimum one can do if one is a gentelmen. But, I have seen Biharis and Tamilians trying to dominate the locals. That is certainly fraught with dangerous consequences. Now I have nothing against Biharis and Tamilians. If I go there, I will have to respect their local culture.
So the key word is wherever you are, respect the local customs, don’t try to dominate with your narrow-mindedness. The locals will just hit back. Then don’t report this case to the media which is always eager to divide India.
Respecting the local culture is part of patriotism. There is nothing un-Indian or un-Hindu in what the Thackerrays did.
-----Email: greathindu@in.com
Fascist Trends in Indian Media
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:02 am
CHINA: THE DIMENSIONS OF THREATS TO INDIA
Subramanian Swamy
[The author is a Harvard-educated scholar of China, and has made significant contribution in promoting India-China relations since 1978]
Since 2008, the relations between India and China have begun to sour. Will it lead to a war? What are the various dimensions of threats from China? When it comes to defence preparedness, we cannot discount any threat from China. In formulating our defence strategy the threat perceptions have to be factored based on the military capacity of China. On the other hand, our foreign policy has to be based on China’s stated intentions.
But no matter how friendly China may sound diplomatically in its stated intentions, if its military capability increases then we have to match it by increasing our military preparedness. Instead, today our defence expenditure has been reduced to an all time low of 2.3% of GDP even as China has maintained a steady expenditure of 6% of GDP for its defence.
China’s stated intentions may be not to go to war with India but merely to needle us. But that should not relax us because of China’s growing military capacity to wage war with India, and hence we have to prepare our defence accordingly. As the saying goes : “we must sweat in peace so that we do not have to shed blood in war”.
The blunder committed by Prime Minister Nehru was in believing China’s stated intention to be friendly with India. Therefore he did not allow our defence expenditure to increase to counter China’s growing military capability. So our defence factories were not producing weapons and winter clothing for our jawans but coffee percolators for canteens and tennis shoes for officers to play badminton and ping pong in the cantonment club. China in the meantime was developing roads and buying arms from abroad to equip itself.
Thus, in 1962 when they decided to attack us on the border we were unprepared, and thus got defeated. Chinese army came down the hills to Tezpur before withdrawing back.
We cannot therefore rely on any country’s stated intentions since it could be a deception to fool us. Intentions are subjective and cannot be easily measured for its reliability and accuracy. But capacity to wage war is objective since it can be physically quantified in terms of missiles, tanks, battleships, fighter aircraft, and troop divisional strength etc..
We can thus never be complacent about China’s capacity to inflict damage to us, nor should we as a large mature and civilized population exhibit a fevered imagination about China’s assumed evil intentions to harm us, as we are doing today, and thus in a self-fulfilling prophesy could knee jerk our nation into a war.
DIMENSIONS OF CHINA’S THREATS
First , a threat is of a Chinese possible attack over some provocation such as Dalai Lama’s visit to Tawang. Some Indians tremble at the thought of that happening. This is a neurosis which I call as the 1962 syndrome. It is like China’s neurosis arising from the events of 1937-45 when Japan occupied that country and brutalized it with atrocities. China reacts aggressively if Japan so much buys an aircraft.
The reality today is that even if we go to war, it will not be a repeat of 1962 because as China and the rest of the world have learnt by the events of 1962, and by subsequent unconnected events, war unites the Indian people as nothing else does, and India nationally consolidates when attacked from abroad. This phenomenon Chanakya had defined as the concept of Chakravartin,viz., that the Indian people in a national crisis set aside their differences and unite as one people.. Had this concept not been applicable to India , then the 1962 attack would have been disastrous for us, and may have even led to balkanization our nation as the Chinese had expected to happen.
Today, with this knowledge and knowing that Tibet and Sinkiang are simmering with insurgency, it is not anymore a one-way street or a picnic for China to attack India. The Chinese will not be able to cross our borders and contiguous areas. Moreover, the Indian air force is superior in the border arena, and the terrain on our side of the border provides a much shorter and friendlier supply chain for our troops while China’s supply chain is very long and through relatively more hostile terrain.
Hence, if China goes to war with us, the results would be different from 1962, provided our leadership does not lose its nerve as it had happened with Nehru then. Therefore those in India who think otherwise, that is Chinese will walk into Assam and Kashmir not to mention Bahraich in UP, have been brought up on the British Imperialist version of our history, which is that India is always a sitting duck for anyone who wants to invade the country.
What should be of concern today is not China’s suspected perfidy and India’s assumed collapse, but the implication of India’s current militarily and psychological preparedness. It is important that we wipe out from our sub-conscious mind the humiliating defeat of 1962, and also act in a manner that China understands that never again it should dare to remind us of 1962.
If China decides to wage war over Arunachal especially for recovering Tawang, then India should take it as an opportunity to wipe out Nehru’s legacy of 1962. The Chinese claim over Tawang and Arunachal is based on its assertion that this territory was a part of Tibet. This is an utterly false claim. It was only for brief periods in history when an aggressive Independent Tibet occupied the Monpa tribal town of Tawang and then reduced the Monpas to serfs and slaves. The Monpas have not forgotten that brutality even today. The Dalai Lama although“our honoured guest”, only pooh poohs China claim to Tibet but does not explicitly state that Tawang and Arunachal are parts of India. Tibetan refugees based in Dharamshala in Himachal are much more explicit. They claim Arunachal with Tawang as part of “free” Tibet. They also do not recognize the MacMohan Line.
China cannot base its claim on Tawang and Arunachal on this sordid and feudal legacy of Tibet. China will however not find it in its interest to go to war over Tawang. It is today needling us to win the sympathy of Tibetans in Lhasa.
But that does not mean we should let our guard down. China should know it is the resolve of the Indian people that for Tawang, without which town the rest of Arunachal cannot be accessed by the Chinese military, India will go out for an all out war, even abrogate the Nehru-Vajpayee treaty to regard Tibet as a part of China. It is moral and just for us to go to war to defend Tawang and Arunachal. As our territory
Second, the threat from China to India arises from UPA government’s abdication of vital national interests for its domestic political survival in power, which is in favour of China. This has enabled China to multiply its strength vis-à-vis India.
For example, India rebuffed pro-Indian elements in Nepal and instead helped Maoists, who lean to China, to usurp power in that country because of what the then coalition partner, the CPM, of the UPA had wanted. Again China was invited by Sri Lanka to build a naval base in Hamantota which port is just 35 miles east of the Tamil Nadu coast, because India declined to help since another partner, the DMK, had wanted to help the LTTE and not Sri Lanka.
Today not one of India’s eight neighbours with common borders with us, supports us against China. Recognizing this factor is crucial for our preparedness against China, as correctly diagnosed by the RSS Sarsanghchalak Ma. Mohan Bhagwat in his India Today interview recently.
We should start now to correct for our neighbours’ hostility to us. We should begin by openly supporting Sri Lanka, and not fall for the pro-LTTE propaganda that Tamils are suffering from brutalities. Tamils need constitutional protection and India should influence the Sri Lanka Buddhists to encourage the MPs of Sri Lanka Parliament to vote for the constitutional amendment Bill when it is introduced. We should help the Nepal Army and the Madeshis to resist the Maoists and liberate Nepal since the Nepal Maoists are now openly helping the Naxalites in India.
Third, China has us ringed in today with naval bases from Gwadar in Baluchistan, to Humantota in Sri Lanka, to Coco Islands in Burma. Hence, for the first time China is positioned to attack us from the Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea, and Bay of Bengal.
Since India today is encircled by China from the north with the help of our neighbours and from the south through its naval bases provided by the same neighbours, we have to take appropriate steps to develop our navy and air force to face this new situation. We should develop a strategic cooperation with Indonesia to monitor the Malacca Straits that is very close to Indira Point in Nicobar islands, and through which straits pass 90 percent of China’s energy supply in oil tanker ships..
Therefore, the appropriate policy for India is to match Chinese military capacity by concrete action and not by speeches or media hype, by spending not 2.3% but 7% of GDP on defence, for which we have to tighten our belts. We have to sweat in peace– by preparing our defence– so that we do not have to shed blood in a war.
Instead today we are sweating at the thought of war without preparing to defend against it. That is, at present we are doing precisely the opposite of what we ought to be doing. The problem today is not what China is planning to do to attack us but what India is not planning to do to prepare to defend itself.
We should also not be defensive while arguing the border dispute with China. Chinese officials must explain to us why when they have accepted the McMohan Line for the border with Burma, they are rejecting it with India.
Also their argument for demanding Tawang is religion-based, i.e., Tawang was a part of Drepung Monastry which is in Tibet and therefore is a part of China. By that argument, Kailash-Manasarovar area should a part of India since our Mahadev Lord Shiva resides there. Unfortunately our ministers and officials do not have the self-confidence or enjoy any trust in China to frankly articulate India’s interest with necessary boldness.
But, under no circumstance we should go want to go to war merely to recover the relatively small area of our lost territory. We should continue to argue with the Chinese for a solution, just as Lord Krishna did with Duryodhana to the exasperation of the Pandavas and especially Draupadi. But when war becomes inevitable because of the intransigence of our adversary then of course we have to meet the challenge by war.
Fourth, China has been consistently arming Pakistan even with nuclear weapons technology according to well known and well placed whistle blowers in Pakistan. This may be in Chinese national interest to keep a flank against India opened. Chinese officials told me in a discussion I had in Beijing recently that they have assisted Pakistan with the knowledge of the IAEA and within international law. Be that as it may nevertheless since it is well known that Pakistan has declared war with India in 1947, 1965[twice], 1971, and 1999, therefore helping Pakistan with dual use technology is defacto directed against India and therefore an unfriendly act.. Moreover, Pakistan is the base and crucible for Islamic terrorists who periodically carry out horrendous terrorists acts on Indian soil.
To meet this particular threat we have to adopt the ancient Hindu method of saam, dhaam, bheda, dand with China. We have to work out on operational strategy for each of the four measures. But first we must talk with China especially in the context of the rising threat of a Taliban take-over of Pakistan which will adversely affect both India and China. The recent Islamic violence in Xinjiang is a case in point. Therefore we must pursue every opening with China to reduce their support to Pakistan. According to me, a deal with China on Pakistan is possible, in any case worth trying for..
These are the four dimensional threats that China poses to India. We have, at least for the present, to deal with these threats on our own capability. And we can do so too.Those who had been dreaming of the US siding with India against China should wake up now after the Obama-Hu meeting in Beijing recently. That meeting has made it clear that the US recognizes a veto for China in South Asian affairs.
For India, the best course to design a national security strategy based on a massive defence build up with a conciliatory foreign policy whereby we do not react on a daily basis to every media report emanating from either side. But I do feel the MEA needs to be more forthcoming in briefing the Indian media about the nuances of Sino-Indian relations on a regular basis. If a Sino-Indian understanding can come about it will be a major factor for world peace. We should strive for that without letting down our guard
November 23rd, 2009 at 8:57 am
We Indians are slaves! we are born slaves ! We don’t deserve this Freedom We deserve to be ruled either Britishers or Mugals… What kind of Respect is Bal Thakre/Raj Thakere Asking and Who is he to ask!
I thought that This blog is related to India But i found that I was Wrong No one here talks about a Nation but about how to Disintegrate India .
If Shankracharya would have thought like you Mr. Deepak Kamat and other Traitors like Bal Thakare/Raj Thakre he would not have bring Hinduism again in this country. In Delhi we Do have Marathi People Shall we start Killing them for Speaking Marathi in their Functions held yearly in our Society, they put up loud speakers signing song on Ganesh festivals shall we ! or shall we beat them cause they are employed here in North India and sending money back to Maharashtra . And May i mind you they don’t respect our Soil as Well this upon the same terms and conditions upon which Shiv Sena’s Cheif using upon other Indians
History shows ! These Marthies lost in Panipat War not because of enemy was Strong but because of there dominating behavior among Locals.
And now there is no difference between Kashmir Separatists and these Marathis cause their self interest comes first then nation. In Mhabhartha Shri Kirshna Said , if by killing a person you save a village save it and by destroying a village you can save nation save it.”
Constitution of India gives freedom of speech and living in any part of my country and practicing my own religion and customs without any fear
These cowards Shiv Sena and Raj Thakere what they have done to nation they haven’t brought any glory to my nation and they can’t be hairs of Shivaji Maharaj. Why they don’t send there sanik in Pakistan to destroy terrorists ! No they can only beat peaceful living Aam Aadmi contributing towards the development of nation
I recommend to punish these traitors and the supporters of these traitors as soon as possible they are like snakes who are very Poisonous and a danger to the integrity of our nation. They will never be in power they can’t be ! the will not be any where in future.
God save my country Fighting whoes citizens are likes dogs fighting with each other… Born Salves F***k
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:04 am
@ Deepakji,
I agree with you only on the aspect of all Indian citizens to “respect the local culture”. This is essential and necessary for the sustainability of our diverse culture and tradition. This is the role of the government, to create awareness amongst its citizens about this or for that mater about other aspects as well for maintaining harmony and integrity of our diverse culture.
But unfortunately, my agreement with you on this issue ends there only. Mr. Laloo Prasad is a politician and whatever he has done (showing favoritism to Biharis in Railways recruitment) is most likely to promote his political agenda or may due to his bias towards Bihari people which is comletly unacceptable on his part. However, this issue should be dealt at the political level. and must be strongly raised and condemend in the Parliament. Instead of doing this the local politicians asks his political workers to beat Biharis and U.P walas, how acceptable is that.
Rather than solving this matter of favourtism other politicians take advantage of the gravity of the issue for their own political purpose without even thinking of the damage they are inflicing on the society. If Mr. Lallo Yadav is wrong (which indeed he is) then the Thakery’s are wrong as well.
If the president of BCCI and Chairman of selection of BCCI is Maharastrian and if they show favoratism to Maharashtraian Players does this give authority to Politicians of other states to instigate the local public to beat Marathi people living in their states. What the hell..??
This kind of favoritism and discrimination should be strictly banned. It is of utmost importance to not even think about such an activity. Otherwise this country will break into pieces.
God help this country.
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:12 am
Dogmas from Abhishek Bharadwaj
Dogma: We Indians are slaves! we are born slaves ! We don’t deserve this Freedom We deserve to be ruled either Britishers or Mugals…
Reality: That speaks volumes about you and your inferiority complex. Grow up.
Dogma: What kind of Respect is Bal Thakre/Raj Thakere Asking and Who is he to ask!
Reality: He is just asking us to respect local culture. And he is an Indian Citizen.
Dogma: I thought that This blog is related to India But i found that I was Wrong No one here talks about a Nation but about how to Disintegrate India .
Reality: This blog is about Hinduism and ways to unite and protect Hindus. And I have been talking about it all along.
Dogma: If Shankracharya would have thought like you Mr. Deepak Kamat and other Traitors like Bal Thakare/Raj Thakre he would not have bring Hinduism again in this country.
Reality: Stupid dogma again. Neither me nor Thackeray have spoken against Shankaracharya. Nor are we Traitors. We only know how to finish traitors effectively.
Dogma: In Delhi we Do have Marathi People Shall we start Killing them for Speaking Marathi in their Functions held yearly in our Society,
Reality: If these Marathi people insult your culture, you are free to kill them. However, if they speak Marati amongst themselves, there is no need to.
Dogma: They put up loud speakers signing song on Ganesh festivals shall we ! or shall we beat them cause they are employed here in North India and sending money back to Maharashtra .
Reality: Now you are assuming things. Isn’t Ganesh festival observed in Delhi too. Atleast, Ganesh festival donations do not go for buying explosives as it is in the case of your friendly neighbourhood Mullah.
Dogma: And May i mind you they don’t respect our Soil as Well this upon the same terms and conditions upon which Shiv Sena’s Cheif using upon other Indians
Reality: Then who is preventing you from hitting them?
Dogma: History shows ! These Marthies lost in Panipat War not because of enemy was Strong but because of there dominating behavior among Locals.
Reality: Does that mean I have to support your friendly neighbourhood Mullah in the name of secularism?
Dogma: And now there is no difference between Kashmir Separatists and these Marathis cause their self interest comes first then nation.
Reality: Maharasthrians and Marathas are patriotic. They never wage Jehad. They don’t convert or kill. So your attempt at comparison is not just superflous. It ranks among mischeavous stupidity.
Dogma: In Mhabhartha Shri Kirshna Said , if by killing a person you save a village save it and by destroying a village you can save nation save it.”
Reality: If that is the case, no problem. But you can’t extend this Krishna logic everywhere. There is no need to apply the Krishna logic everywhere. Even Krishna said, “Follow me only if you are convinced”. We are not like Muslims who follow Prophet blindly and kill in his name.
Dogma: Constitution of India gives freedom of speech and living in any part of my country and practicing my own religion and customs without any fear.
Reality: Then go and enter the Masjid and say, “Jai Shri Ram” and tell me, “What happens?”
Dogma: These cowards Shiv Sena and Raj Thakere what they have done to nation they haven’t brought any glory to my nation and they can’t be hairs of Shivaji Maharaj.
Reality: It was the Sainiks who saved Mumbai from the Islamic goons. Remember that. I don’t know where you were twiddling your thumbs when the Islamic underworld strcuk Mumbai. Be grateful to them,.
Dogma: Why they don’t send there sanik in Pakistan to destroy terrorists ! No they can only beat peaceful living Aam Aadmi contributing towards the development of nation
Reality: Shiv Sainiks are not Indian Army. Army is Army. Sainiks are Sainiks. Shiv Sena might have its own fault. But without doubt they have protected Hindus.
Dogma: I recommend to punish these traitors and the supporters of these traitors as soon as possible they are like snakes who are very Poisonous and a danger to the integrity of our nation. They will never be in power they can’t be ! the willnot be any where in future.
Reality: Why don’t you recommend this to our neighbourhood Mullah?
Dogma: God save my country Fighting whoes citizens are likes dogs fighting with each other… Born Salves F***k
Reality: Either you must be a Christian Missionary or you might have watched too much of NDTV. Good luck.
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:16 am
@ Ashish Singh,
I agree with you. I don’t support everything that the Thackerrays did. But we should also remember that the Indian Media is very selective in its criticism.
It only criticises the Thackerrays because they stand upto Hindutva. They don’t show the whole picture.
This is what I attempted here. I agree that the matter should be dealt with at appropriate levels and innocent people (whether Tamil, Bihari or Marati) should not be affect. Unfortunatley, it happened.
But to solve this problem, you have to look at reality in its face. Just criticising Thackerray won’t help. The Thackerrays are only reacting to the insult heaped on them by Laloo and his cronies.
November 23rd, 2009 at 9:42 am
Some Gems
“If these Marathi people insult your culture, you are free to kill them.
Then who is preventing you from hitting them?
We are not like Muslims who follow Prophet blindly and kill in his name” - Deepakji
No comments!!
Now this Tackrey is after Sachin for saying that he is more Indian than marathi.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:30 am
@ Najeeb,
Your thick Islamic skull takes everything literally.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:32 am
this very blogger who calls every one pseudo is himself a big himself.
when earlier pointed out about this point this person calimed he would not comment because he is not petty as thakery for taking up local cause. He said his cause is national and not petty as to fight for languages etc.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:49 am
Stupid Dogma from the Above Stupid Dogma.
I am not a Laqeer ka Fakir to stick to every word that moves out of my mouth.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:50 am
@ Stupid Dogma,
I never said my cause is national. Look at the masthead — It is Hindu internationalism. NOt nationalism.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:55 am
@ Stupid Dogma,
I think what Mr. Kammat is pointing out here is the biased Indian Media which reports only one side of the story to create spicy news and enhance their channel TRP. What Mr. Kammat points out i think is that the media which reports the ugly side of Thakarray should also report the ugly side of Laloo Yadav and to if they really care about the country (which they should as expected from them) then they should reflect the two sides of the coin together in this case the media should bring both the stories of Mr. Laloo favouring Biharis in railway recuirtment which is condemnable as well as bring to notice of the public what these Thakarays are doing in return to Bihari people which also is condemnable, and then the media sould create awareness amongst the citizens and condemn both the political parties together for creating such fraction in the soiceity. Unfortunately this doesn’t reflect very clearly in his original post.
Hope this clears the dispute. Please bring tranquality in the discussion and let us keep the discussion meaninful and beneficial otherwise there is no point in wasting time in coming and having a debate here.
Best Regards
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:34 pm
I was pretty impressed by deepak kamath’s blogs about hindu interests. But with this, he has not only hurt our sentiments but has divided india on the basis of regionalism and stupid languages divide.Instead of uniting all hindus under one umbrella against the other forces he seems to be playing politics now. Biharis may be every where but they are paid for their hard work and cheap labour . They are contributing to nation’s growth. The erstwhile nalanda and gutam budha are india’s greats and are’nt they biharis too?.
shame on you deepak..you have lost biharis for u r stupid argument against us.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:39 pm
what have you to say about marathi attrocities against konkani in goa?.
marthi is the language of maharastrians and these marathis have taken over government and trying to make goa another marathi state.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pm
marathis claim that belagavi (belgaum) belongs to maharastra because sizable number of marathi speaking people are living there.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:48 pm
KOKKE sect never do anything if there is no profit.
Lakshar e toyba and ISI is filling coffers of extremist wings and their leaders to incite communal hatred and there by destroying india forever.
every one knows who kokke are and need no explanation.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Your thick Islamic skull takes everything literally. – So says Deepakji
Please bring tranquality in the discussion and let us keep the discussion meaninful and beneficial otherwise there is no point in wasting time in coming and having a debate here. – Ashish to Stupid Dogma
Dear Ashish,
Would you also advise Deepakji to stop abusing and take responsibility for his own words? Are you prepared to stop commenting here if he is unwilling?
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:53 pm
@ Hitesh,
I never said anything against Biharis. I am only for the son of the soil scheme. Anybody can go anywhere in India but one has to respect the local culture. What’s wrong in that? Besides, I am not standing for any elections. Why do you say that I have lost Biharis. I have only lost Bihari fundamentalists. I don’t support fundamentalist of any hues.
@ Niranjan Kamat,
I am not exactly supporting Shiv Sena but the son of the soil policy. Yes, India is for everyone… but that doesn’t mean we can trample on the local culture.
@ Prachi,
THat is a different issue.
@ So-called Santosh Shetty,
Pseudosecularism at its worst.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
@ Najeeb,
I didn’t abuse. I called a spade a spade.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:56 pm
While I do agree with people who say that the Thackreys are stupid, because instead of pursuing Hindu interests, they have gone regional, and this is extremely short-sighted of them, I can’t help but support Deepak when he says that the media is biased. This same media does not tell us clearly that Kashmir is the only state in India where muhammadans are a majority, and they have killed and chased the Kashmiri Pundits and the Kashmir valley (not Jammu and Ladakh) is an islamic democracy with muslims in power and opposition. Our stupid Chidambaram actually has talks with terrorist mirwaiz umar farooq, whereas this rabid jihadi should be exterminated and not being treated as a head of state.
People, before shouting at Deepak, do some research about who controls Indian media.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Dear Ashish,
There is something more to point out. The intention of Deepakji does not seem alike as you try to paint. Though he spend his time to write one para one the alleged media bias, he wrote much more to support tackerays’ horrendous activities.
Give particular attention to the last para where Deepakji, of course a firm believer and observer of Vasudaiva kudumbakam and internationalism, asserts that nothing that tackrey’s did is anti-indian or anti-hindu.
It must pretty clear now to you what Deepakji supports.
PS: I posted one comment to your reply in the other thread. But someone – it should not be Deepakji as he is a firm believer (!) in freedom of thought and expression (!!) – blocked it
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Dear Ashish,
Here is the blocked comment. Read in that context
btw, i visited the site you recommended. It seems that is it just mere an opinion, no historical evidence provided. But the jokes in that site are hilarious.
In continuation of the above post (#34)
vii) Is it not a lie to say that the glory of India was destroyed by Islamic invaders? The Gloden Age of India, during which science, literature, philosophy, astronomy, art etc flourished, extended between 3rd and 6th century CE and that was during the period of Gupta dynasty. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire – it is interesting to note that the empire kept on growing. Samudragupta, who was a firm believer in Hinduism and known to have worshipped Lord Vishnu, alone incorporated 20 over kingdoms) It was during their reign that great achievements in many fields were made. The period ended with Hunas defeating Guptas in 6th century.
“Skandagupta is generally considered the last of the great ruler. He defeated the Pushyamitra threat, but then was faced with invading Hephthalites or “White Huns”, known in India as the Huna, from the northwest. He repulsed a Huna attack c. 455, But the expense of the wars drained the empire’s resources and contributed to its decline.”
“Samudragupta was succeeded by his elder son Ram Gupta, a weak king, he agreed to surrender his wife Dhruvadevi to the Saka Chief Rudrasimha II. However, Ram Gupta’s younger brother Chandra Gupta II went to the Saka camp disguised as the queen and assassinated the Saka Chief. After this he killed his brother Ram Gupta, married Dhruvadevi and ascended to the throne. Chandra Gupta II expanded his realm westwards, defeating the Saka Western Kshatrapas of Malwa, Gujarat and Saurashtra in a campaign lasting until 409, but with his main opponent Rudrasimha III defeated by 395, and crushing the Bengal (Vanga) chiefdoms. Despite the creation of the empire through war, the reign is remembered for its very influential style of Hindu art, literature, culture and science, especially during the reign of Chandra Gupta II”
So sibling rivalry for power started much before the mughals!
“Skandagupta was followed by weak rulers Puru Gupta (467-473), Kumaragupta II (473-476), Buddhagupta (476-495?), Narasimhagupta, Kumaragupta III, Vishnu Gupta, Vainya Gupta and Bhanu Gupta. In the 480’s the Hephthalite King Oprah broke through the Gupta defenses in the northwest, and much of the empire was overrun by the Huna by 500. The empire disintegrated under the attacks of Toramana and his successor Mihirakula. (Mihirakula is described in The Record of the Western Regions by Hsüan-tsang (7th century) as a good ruler who started to conquer neighbouring territories. Mihirakula is remembered in contemporary Indian and Chinese histories for his cruelty and his destruction of temples and monasteries, with particular hostility towards Buddhism. He claimed to be a worshipper of Shiva. One legend specifically portrays Mihirakula enjoying captured wild elephants being driven off the cliffs to their deaths into deep gorges. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihirakula) The Hunas conquered several provinces of the empire, including Malwa, Gujarat and Thanesar and broke away under the rule of local dynasties. It appears from inscriptions that the Guptas, although their power was much diminished, continued to resist the Hunas. Narasimhagupta formed an alliance with the independent kingdoms to drive the Huna from most of northern India by the 530’s. The succession of the sixth-century Guptas is not entirely clear, but the tail end recognized ruler of the dynasty’s main line was king Vishnugupta, reigning from 540 to 550.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gupta_Empire
Who are these Hunas, the barbarians who destroyed our golden age and temples and monasteries? What was their religion? They originated in northwestern India and parts of eastern Iran and were fervent worshippers of sun god and shiva. Given these facts, they can hardly be called muslims! But what about calling them Hindus, as they worshipped Shiva and Sun God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age_of_India
Whatever they were, it will be unfair to call them barbarians, because they were attacked first by the emperors who led the golden period.
“Scholars believe that king Raghu, the hero of Kalidasa’s Sanskrit play Raghuvamsha (4th/5th c AD) was in fact king Chandragupta Vikramaditya of the Gupta Dynasty. According to the epic,he had started a military expedition and after defeating and subjugating the local peoples along the way he reached the Parasikas of Sassanian Iran and defeated them after fierce fighting. Then he proceeded to north from Iran and reached river Vamkshu (or Oxus) where he battled with the Hunas. After conquering the Hunas, he crossed the Oxus and encountered the Kambojas, an ancient Iranian people who find frequent mention in South Asian texts [5].
Brahat Katha of Kashmiri Pandit Kshmendra (11th c AD) also claims that king Vikramaditya had slaughtered the Shakas, Barbaras, Hunas, Kambojas, Yavanas, Parasikas and the Tusharas etc and hence unburdened the earth of these sinful Mlechhas [6]. There is still another ancient Brahmanical text Katha-Saritsagara by Somadeva which also attests that king Vikramaditya had invaded the north-west tribes including the Kashmiras and had destroyed the Sanghas of the Mlechhas (reference to Sanghas here obviously alludes to the Sanghas of the Madrakas, Yaudheyas, Kambojas, Mallas or Malavas, Sibis, Arjunayans, Kulutas and Kunindas etc). Those who survived accepted his suzerainty and many of them joined his armed forces [7].”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunas
Two points must be taken note of here. Firstly, Vikramaditya was the emperor of Gupta Dynasty. The same dynasty that ushered in the golden period. What does it prove? Even during the golden period, there were wars. Even the best of the emperors during the golden age too waged war and slaughtered people, who were considered Mlechhas.
That brings us to the second point. Our ancestors considered there were mlechhas (forget about vasudaivakudumbagam and freedom to belief in whatever you want ) who were a burden to earth. ”Brahat Katha of Kashmiri Pandit Kshmendra (11th c AD) also claims that king Vikramaditya had slaughtered the Shakas, Barbaras, Hunas, Kambojas, Yavanas, Parasikas and the Tusharas etc and hence unburdened the earth of these sinful Mlechhas [6].” Remember this happened in 4th/5th CE, and thus before the advent of Islam. It clearly shows that inhuman concepts like caste, untouchability, pure and impure (mlechhas) existed at that time. Now we cant and should not blame the origin of such inhuman concepts, as propagated by Deepak and his abettors, on Islamic invaders.
So he was on a mission to ‘unburden’ the earth of these ’sinful Mlechhas’. How is this mission different from, say Ghazni’s or Aurangazeb’s?
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:12 pm
@ Najeeb,
You say that I am a fundamentalist because I support “goon” Thackerray.
Then what should I say about who is defending Islamic terrorists who have ethnically cleansing of Hindus in Kashmir. What shoudl I say about you who says that Islam is a religon of peace and brotherhood when it is crystal clear that the Koran tells the believes to either convert or kill /trouble the Hindus (Kafirs) to the max.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Yusuf Ali, Pickthal and Shakir are known as the authentic translator of Quran… See how the Koran directs the believers to tear the non-Muslims to shreds.
003.085
YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).
PICKTHAL: And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR: And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
005.010
YUSUFALI: Those who reject faith and deny our signs will be companions of Hell-fire.
PICKTHAL: And they who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, such are rightful owners of hell.
SHAKIR: And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject our communications, these are the companions of the name.009.029YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.005.033
(THE PUNISHMENT)
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
PICKTHAL: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
SHAKIR: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.
014.013
YUSUFALI: And the Unbelievers said to their messengers: “Be sure we shall drive you out of our land, or ye shall return to our religion.” But their Lord inspired (this Message) to them: “Verily We shall cause the wrong-doers to perish!
PICKTHAL: And those who disbelieved said unto their messengers: Verily we will drive you out from our land, unless ye return to our religion. Then their Lord inspired them, (saying):Verily we shall destroy the wrong-doers,
SHAKIR: And those who disbelieved said to their messengers: We will most certainly drive you forth from our land, or else you shall come back into our religion. So their Lord revealed to them: Most certainly We will destroy the unjust.
014.014
YUSUFALI: “And verily We shall cause you to abide in the land, and succeed them. This for such as fear the Time when they shall stand before My tribunal,- such as fear the punishment denounced.”
PICKTHAL: And verily We shall make you to dwell in the land after them. This is for him who feareth My Majesty and feareth My threats.
SHAKIR: And most certainly We will settle you in the land after them; this is for him who fears standing in My presence and who fears My threat.
014.015
YUSUFALI: But they sought victory and decision (there and then), and frustration was the lot of every powerful obstinate transgressor.
PICKTHAL: And they sought help (from their Lord) and every froward potentate was bought to naught;
SHAKIR: And they asked for judgment and every insolent opposer was disappointed:
014.016
YUSUFALI: In front of such a one is Hell, and he is given, for drink, boiling fetid water.
PICKTHAL: Hell is before him, and he is made to drink a festering water,
SHAKIR: Hell is before him and he shall be given to drink of festering water:
014.017
YUSUFALI: In gulps will he sip it, but never will he be near swallowing it down his throat: death will come to him from every quarter, yet will he not die: and in front of him will be a chastisement unrelenting.
PICKTHAL: Which he sippeth but can hardly swallow, and death cometh unto him from every side while yet he cannot die, and before him is a harsh doom.
SHAKIR: He will drink it little by little and will not be able to swallow it agreeably, and death will come to him from every quarter, but he shall not die; and there shall be vehement chastisement before him.
022.019
YUSUFALI: These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water.
PICKTHAL: These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads,
SHAKIR: These are two adversaries who dispute about their Lord; then (as to) those who disbelieve, for them are cut out garments of fire, boiling water shall be poured over their heads.
022.020
YUSUFALI: With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins.
PICKTHAL: Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted;
SHAKIR: With it shall be melted what is in their bellies and (their) skins as well.
2.021
YUSUFALI: In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them.
PICKTHAL: And for them are hooked rods of iron.
SHAKIR: And for them are whips of iron.
022.022
YUSUFALI: Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), “Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!”
PICKTHAL: Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning.
SHAKIR: Whenever they will desire to go forth from it, from grief, they shall be turned back into it, and taste the chastisement of burning.
004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, And beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
(9/5) Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:15 pm
I don’t understand why so much issue on Dipak’s views? is there anything wrong about what he said? i at least don’t see. To Hitesh: who said Biharis are wrong? and who put in your mind that we forgot Nalanda or
Buddha? you are taking wrong turn. when this beating of Biharis took place by MNS people, i talked to many Marathi people about railway recruitment. to my utter surprise, their response was they didn’t even know such recruitment is taking place. “we don’t even know about Railway Bharti in Mumbai, and how people from Bihar and UP came to know about recruitment in Mumbai which we locals are unaware of?” Beating people is never a solution nor it may be supported, but advice from Raj and Uddhav to Bihari ministers to make such efforts so that Local people would not need to go to other states for employment purposes is perfectly alright. and what about media’s biased news against MNS and Shivsena? why nobody pays attention towards it is uncomprehendable to me. everybody condemn MNS for hitting Abu Azmi, why noone speaks about his gestures of showing Chappal and kicking? why, just they belong to Shivsena and MNS is sin? why they only opposed Azmi? because he delibrately insulted Marathi. if he is too fond of Hindi, why then he uses Urdu words while speaking? he should speak Shuddha Hindi. another thing which maybe irrelevant here (sorry for that), his anti-Indian views are forgotten by all. all know what he did in bhiwandi and his connections with names such as, again, all know whom i mean. think about all this and decide. Regards.
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Dear Najeebji,
I reiterate what is said in ref to your #34. You r pointing dot on the target.
The link that i passed to you was in reference to my assertion # 35
“The history of this country which we keep singing day and night is the effect of the doing of the ancestors of this country who lived long before 2500 years, that’s my conviction and i stand corrected.
Something like the following is worth reading and pondering”
Before you posed to me # 34, I tried to raise similar concerns to others on the same thread, however i was pelted with stones.
My reply #35 in ref. to your #34 was in continuation to what i was trying to convey to someone else on the same thread. The link that i passed on to you was just one of many opinions, but it does try to form a complete story (though unreliable due to lack of evidences and references) of our debacle. What i think is we ourself are responsible of our present state of affairs but we never accept that and try to hold someone else responsible for it. How is it possible, i can’t understand.
Anyways, There are many evidences which point to the direction of Tamils, our own people moving to Persia around 2700 B.C and inhabiting it for centuries. Please follow the link below for complete story.
http://2ndlook.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/dravidian-history-no-one-talks-about/
The author of the above blog, Mr. Anuraag Sanghi is a very learned man and a true research scholar. You will fall in love with his blog and your own concerns that you are raising will be reaffirmed.
regards
November 24th, 2009 at 5:43 am
“What i think is we ourself are responsible of our present state of affairs but we never accept that and try to hold someone else responsible for it. How is it possible, i can’t understand.” –
Exactly!
November 24th, 2009 at 6:10 am
@ Najeeb,
I agree with you here. We ourselves are responsiblefor our present stte of affairs.
THe Invaders invaded us because we let our guard down.
November 25th, 2009 at 8:42 am
This is a fantastic analysis.
Why is the eunuchoid Indian Govt mum to the racist attack by OZ citizens on indian students?
This kind of retaliation is but natural in any corner of the world. That is what the Darwins theory of Survival of the fittest says !!!!!
November 25th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Dr. Manik Dixit, the attacks on Indian students were not racial, but communal. It was not the Aussies who were attacking them, but muslims from Lebanon. These same muslims were raping Australian girls a few years ago and were the reason for the Beach Riots. Google “Australian Beach Riots” (without the quotes) for details.
November 26th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Deepak,
I am among those who find it difficult to refute the points made by Raj Thackeray. Have you seen his speeches? They are very convincing. No wonder he has been able to make a serious dent in the Shiv Sena base.
An old blog piece of mine on the same topic….
http://rightunderthenose.blogspot.com/2008/05/redeemer-of-marathi-maanus.html
November 27th, 2009 at 9:36 am
@ Ravindra,
Read it. Nice piece. He does have his own logic in doing all that. Rules extend to everyone. And those breaking it cannot accuse others of violating rules.
January 4th, 2010 at 9:33 am
Mr Deepak Kamat
I thought of you as a nationalist and was starting to follow your blog.
I am a Swayamsevak of RSS and based on my samskars, I believe that your support for Raj Thackrey n Udhav Thackrey for the Marathi Manoos issue is disheartening and ridiculous.
As a nationalist and also a Hindu Internationalist(suit yourself), I believe that you have made a fool of yourself and your knowledge about Hindu Dharma by supporting these petty politicians who are hell bent on fragmenting our nation.
I feel you are on the payrolls of MNS or SS and hence your irrational support for such divisive stance.
Thanks for all the information and knowledge i got from your blog until now. But i guess it is now time for me and other nationalists to start spending their time on truly nationalists blogs.
Jai Hind
January 4th, 2010 at 9:47 am
@ Rajeev Mohata,
January 4th, 2010 at 9:49 am
@ Rajeev Mohota,
January 4th, 2010 at 9:50 am
@ Rajeev Mohota,
January 4th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
@ so-called Rajeev Mohota,
You are either a crypto-Christian or a crypto-Mullah.
If you were a swayamsewak, you would have answered by question by now.
January 8th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
ok
February 19th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
For Marathi Manoor and Local Interest , Bala Saheb is right and right and right only.
If whole media, (they are the puppets of foreign powers) can not tolerate this, why do they not raise the Issue that Kashmir is for whole India, and we have been smoking out Trillions of rupees and millons of lives of our poor Indian bretherns.
Media is silent because they are getting their column ads from Govt of India. and they can not displease them.
Kashmir is the legacy of Neharu rushing to UNO.
Tibet is the Legacy of Neharu , withdrawing Army from there.
Arunachal dispute too is the result of 1962 war result.
Why no media is bringing out this facts to people so that they come to their senses and vote for right party.
Shiv Sena is vibrant till Bala Saheb is Vibrant and we pray he lives longer.
He tells spad a spade.
Mr.Kamat if you really love Hindu India, try to find the books written by late Dr.Baburao Patel, he was the equal lion in the times of Yashavantrao Chawan who played God Father to many Pawars and Patils.
Dr.Baburao has analysed the Hindu India situation and given some vision.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Article by Dr.Swamy seems brilliant.
Milliatry preparedness is onething but acting on it is another.
Late Gen. K Sunderji had planned operation Brasstack, and he did prepare fully. but political will or lack of it did not allow him. Else this problem of Kashmir was about to end. in 1986.
Even with removal or disintegrated Pakistan, the Atomick weapons would never have been a problem to us nor terroists.
Excuse for not allowing Gen. Sunderji , given by Late prime minister Rajiv was, “it will displease America’
Gen K Sunderji lamented this fact in his book ‘Listen little Man’
Even Israel had offered to finish off the Kahuta atomic centre with only help for its planes to permit for refuelling at India. And the offer was denied, because for the reason that it will displease ARAB WORLD:
When America attacked Iraq, whom did it please?
and reason for the attack was ‘biological weapons or WMD” Which were never found.
Now look at latest news : Saudi Arab is planning to construct the refinery on the coast of Karachi in Pakistan.
Money of Arab for Pak are used against India,
Refinery of Arab too could be available to carry out refuelling of war planes for attacking India. and India can not destroy it because it is Saudi Refinery.
Does it not hurt India when India citizens are killed with arms purchased with Arabian moeny?
India has been always playing the defensive role and never been aggressive
Deepak Kamat if your pen can inspire the youths to form the organisation that gnerates the Karate Kings and Karate queeens who will have will to generate the forceful India, then only Indian generation can get rid of the corrupt and cheater rulers.
August 28th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
Found your site on LinkedIN, and I just needed to say that I appreciated the info!